Istalris wrote:Took me 2.5 weeks to build 5 million LL with probably 50 random inactive raids, Gozar, how long did it take you to build your fleet? We really have some horrible balance issues don't we lol.

Tom are you being sarcastic or do you mean that for real..? because if it took you 2.5 weeks it has taken me over 20 months to get my fleet this high.. And a lot more than 50 raids..more like 9000..But Defence is not what the game should be about..not just building a wall of defence..? Are we not playing a war/ battle strategy game..? Yes I agree if there is a unbalance in D it should be changed.. But creating more players and fleets should be the main priority..?

For players information I recycled my 30k bombers and 35k Destroyers about 3 months ago..due to the deut cost and inefficiency of these ships at the time..and now ZE up grades Bombers way to go.. What I ask my self is what next will change.. The game as it stands should be left alone and implement NEW buildings, ships and or defence turrets.. then it will be equal for all but to change what stands is unfair to existing players.. as a whole and only benefits a hand full of players with High volume of Plasma Turrets ..jmo

can i say these are all perspectives.... i am tired of all the reasoning and arguments and back and forth u are wrong i am correct. is it seems like here we all think to ourselves what we think is absolutely correct.

i am asking both ista and gozar and who ever is interested in discussing some real number crunching to find the flaws if any in the current system. give us models that we can look into without any of the personal views. i dont carry any value to what u think is best unless you fail to show why and how. please guys come up with models that can actually be helpful to the developer teams to see that this is effed up and needs changes... or this is gunna counter this flaw and make the game more challenging.

dont just say we need this this this rather give a model...

in this thread dex showed a really good demo on how LLs are the most profitable strategic arsenal to have as its the most cost effective turret u can have. game play wise if a players goal is to get bigger mines and then after hitting a target go fleeting (example rj) u cant say the strategy is wrong.

or take consideration of dex who made an almost impenetrable shell that allowed him to horde any res without risk from any one.... this are called strategies and if a player wants to follow them as long as the game permits u have no right to look down to their playing style.

if it is fleeting u want build reservoir that can vault the daily production without the need for defense and completely depend on fleet to carry out ur affairs in that case the focus should be which new building could be introduced that would obsolete the need for defense but as long as ze is not going through that kind of drastic changes everything is fair game.

i have been always saying RIP extreme players are the biggest turtle harder in game. so does that make u uncomfortable? i hope not cause i know its part of the strategy. and dont tell me how u got to this by fleeting or raiding or just turtling. it is just IMO.


about model propositions .... this game has been pointed out by so many times that the RIP is the biggest flaw as the cost and damage ratio is just not right. there is a new direction the dev team are trying to focus on is with LG and plasma techs. those two of can be appropriated with better balance then we might be going some where.

sorry for ranting again no flame intended no pun intended i am just wishing to see we can through in good ideas original ideas not nag on old stuffs that ze admins and dev team already declared they wont change.

play with what we get is the best way to have fun

cheers to all and FYI i got banned in game who ever hates me can lul at that cause i am luling at it too never gotten auto ban before.

EDIT: forgot to add what i really wanted to say initially in all excitement i do like the balancing scheme that was suggested. like many of the ships defense was developed rather haphazardly too. if bombers are being re-adjusted i think defense should be readjusted to cope with the changes.

this is not taking us back to square 1 cause both changing will not give us any result as it might be another stalemate, consider this as the right way to come in an stalemate rather than a dis-functioning engine that just halts on its own weight.

Gozar2 wrote:Tom are you being sarcastic or do you mean that for real..? because if it took you 2.5 weeks it has taken me over 20 months to get my fleet this high..

I wish I was being sarcastic lol, as my friends and allies can attest I was building it for fun and just to see how big I could make it before and of you guys decided to knock it down. Just before the third week I stopped at 5.2 million from a base of just 20k. That's how bad the defense to fleet balance has become.

It's the same with RIP's, someone can spend a day building them and another person with equal mines and raiding capabilities has to spend a week or more building other ships required to kill them.

-Partial edit and 1 Warning for Administration baiting-

1st Thank you Tom for your candor.. I appreciate this.. I agree regards to the time scales of ship building to defence building..

2ND SPY I agree also with you on your last comments..I would say that we all only have our opinions and the difference in these is what makes mankind greater than other species on this planet.. Our different approaches to the same dilemma is what helps mankind develop.. enough philosophy...lol

Like many players in this game.. Remembering it is a game..however all of us past and present have put many many hours of our lives into playing it...

Dare I say this is not the original version of this game, though in its own right still one of the best... Ask your self why are most of the top players in points FLEETERS.. Remembering that most high ranking players that are no longer fleeters once were.. Why have metal mines lvl 40 crystal mines lvl 36 when the cost of this is so, so very expensive .. then add that you can only have a max of 21 planets like this.. Though as a fleeter all players mines are yours all 40k planets are yours to farm as your own.. Well of course I exaggerate..but hopefully you gt what I am saying.. The fastest and strongest way to develop is to raid others.. Now as SPY said there are many game strategies .... I would never put down others game play..
Just stating that we are playing a War based game.. The more players that we can increase and help build fleet the more fun we should all have...

My suggestions are not working models just potential ways to help increase the game population and enjoyment.. If there were no fleeters there would be no reason for defence....surely we are playing for the same goal...fun.. the love of this game..the friends we have made..etc..

I am not a technician I am not very good at calculating formulas.. I would not be able to work out complete plans of a build..

However with regards to the matter of defence.. If there is a lack then fix it..np

What would be good is to take defence build out of shipyard.. and develop a new building just for defence as I said.. Call it a Defence Plant of Factory..what ever.. this will help players who want to be turtles as they can spend their resources building this up to help their defence.. you could also structure the time scale so as to slow down time required to build defence as it is so much quicker to build than ships.. Just suggestions to help the Dev team.. ideas we need more of them.. What are your thoughts on this idea..?

Well all build times, ships, defense, buildings and researches are based of a formula that uses the Metal + Crystal cost to calculate build times. So to slow them down you would need to increase their cost or develop a new formula.

I think, in personal opinion, separating construction wont do much, what really needs to happen is for the devs to take a good long look at every unit and it's relative power in the game and attain a state of pure balance.

@Gozar
This change has been announced a year ago. Check this post of mine in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=42895#p42895

@everyone
We do boost defenses, you are right. But in the same time we boost a specific ship; Bomber.
The game balance will surely shift but the real question is that which position will be more balanced ? Current one or future one ?

If you look it free of any personal interest (what you currently play) we are giving more strategies to the game. At one hand, we give reason to have bombers, a ship type neglected by many. At another hand we improve Plasma Cannons which are the top weapon against deathstars. Finally, we give meaning to one more technology to upgrade indifinitely.

Many want to add new ships while the current ones are largely ignored. We want to make every ship important for something and this is something done right now.

Finally, we do not want to promote one strategy and I personally can see a lot more strategies than the ordinary fleeter,turtle and miner that are heard. Specifically, I can see more strategy types like destructor, raider and a lot of combinations as a raider with a shell at his homeplanet for example would do a good combo. Apart from this strategies, there can be team players that will have a bulk of Lunar Guardians which could be called Guardian or a bulk of Bombers which could be called Bomber etc etc

In this sense, we believe that multiple strategies should be promoted and our development is never towars strengthening one strategy as Gozar suggested. If we are to make fleeters too strong, the game will miss on strategy options. Do you really want a universe of only fleeters and the one with most RIPS wins ?

Has anyone simed at all and have specific suggestions on this implementation ?

Zorg wrote:Has anyone simed at all and have specific suggestions on this implementation ?

Yes, doesn't make that much of a difference. Just means you need to send a bit more shielding when against PC.

On the case of the Bombers, it could be interesting, I will certainly use them more often than usual. I can see Bomber + Dessie combo being very potent against mid range turtles with this new set up.

Zorg wrote:@Gozar

Finally, we do not want to promote one strategy and I personally can see a lot more strategies than the ordinary fleeter,turtle and miner that are heard. Specifically, I can see more strategy types like destructor, raider and a lot of combinations as a raider with a shell at his homeplanet for example would do a good combo. Apart from this strategies, there can be team players that will have a bulk of Lunar Guardians which could be called Guardian or a bulk of Bombers which could be called Bomber etc etc

Hi, Zorg.. After reading the above I agree these are some good strategies..etc.. Tho for me these type of player would still be FLEETERS..

The points I tried to make, are ZE has improved Defence..and many players will gain from this.. However due to the long time it has taken to improve the Bomber.. (1yrs) I decided about 2 months ago that as a ship not knowing that they would ever be improved, to deleted recycle the 30,000 of them I had.. Now see it from my point of you.. I delete a ship type that was unbalanced and out of sink and then its improved..You may say that it was my choice to do this and I agree but I based my decision on the ship as it was.. 10 Months of waiting was to long..

All players that have built Plasmas get an automatic up grade with no effort/cost.. What would have been fare is to have introduced a new Plasma based defence turret and a new Bomber based ship.. Then we all start at the same point.. Changing goal post during a game will always cause problems..

@Istalris
We speak of a small tweak anyway. This is not a biggie. If you look it at cool blood, the Weapons upgrade is better than Plasma upgrade. Still, bombers and plasma get a small boost.

@Gozar
I respect what you say about mid-round changes and I agree. I believe though that this is not a big change and we need to implement it in order to improve the general gameplay. Would you get rid of destroyers now with LG becoming important ? Would you get rid of the bombers if this implementation was in effect ? When it owuld be better for gameplay ? I can accept the argue about being late to implement it, we will try to be more specific in implementation dates for gameplay affect implementations in the future and let us not forget that this is a player suggestion after all.