MASSACRE engine in low numbers is better than Engine v1.1
In big numbers and multiple stacks however, RF gets too powerful. It gets that powerful that it ends up broken, in our opinion.

This is what is fixed in the new engine, Engine version 2.0

The results are more stabilized and the engine will work well with multiple stacks and high number of ships. I won't get into details on how this is done, I will only say that RF has been re-build from scatch. This is our 3rd attempt to create a reliable RF. First attempt is still used in BE 1.1, 2nd attempt is used in Massacre Engine. This time, we believe that the engine is much better than before while we have also added some controls that will allow easy future tweaking, if we spot any issues.

In comparison to other engines used elsewhere, it has to be regarded as a true simulation of a battle. We can create an engine that produces the same output every time. We can create an engine where you will get the same result you have seen in the simulator. We do NOT want to create such an engine though as this would be then a simple mathematical act.

We believe in the randomness of the battles. This is why this has been maintained. RF selection is still, truly RANDOM. Still, just because the engine is BALANCED, it produces consistent results.

@mickylove
Lunar Guardians values are not a fluke. They are a join project between developers team and our community. They are the result of a long procedure which involved a lot of testing and simulations and real usage. 18 pages in the forums mean a lot. You can find the details here: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=3860

So before you continue suggesting anything regarding LGs, I suggest you take a look (even a quick one) there. It will help you understand the usability of this ship and why its design is such. It is not a coincedence that we do not get suggestions to change anything on LGs. They are considered balanced.

@evilbass
If your worry is LGs being weaker, then you should be at ease. LGs to me, seem more powerful than before. They always win in same resource setups (66 LGs vs 1 RiP) while they also win in less quantities.

@Nautilus
Have you tried any realistic battles to see how it would do? For example, your current fleet against an existing server fleet? Have you tried any strategies to check if the engine responds well? We have done some sims and it looks good but it would be nice to have more trying it. Thank you for your efforts till now.

@Pulsar
As Nautilus said, Destroyers win LGs. LGs are mostly meant like an ANTI-RIP ship and they seem to do this job well. There can be specific strategies to counter enemy ships and there are also specific ways to counters LGs. The fleet composition you posted seems like a good way to stop a mono LG stack as you used ALL 3 ship types that RF against LGs. Finally, LGs strongest point is RF against RIPs and then shields: so someone who is investing in LGs should be investing in shields too. These should not be considered as issues to the engine; In contrary, by the moment that the engine responds and reacts to such input, then it is working good.

I have read it I have use the fix sim I happy with LG against rips. Before the fix they were weaker and they days in speed and x as a stack hit are numbered will have use them with other ships, may I ask will u look in too battlecruisers haveing rf against bomber not high maybe 3/4 has I said in my other post bombers shouldt have the upper hand over battlecruisers I have sims this

ty Zorg
seems you guys got it sorted...

Okay. Fine. LG's remain the only really viable option for taking out fleets with RIPs in them, even fleets that aren't majority RIPs by any stretch of the imagination. Making them easier to counter isn't something I want to see, but if others like the change and think it will be a good thing, fine.

@ Pulsar....
If LG's are stronger.... as they all seem to think....
I am happy...
as long as they not weakened...!!!....
Time will tell!!...

Since the fix lgs are good against rips but will not good as a stack hit like they are now in xtreme and speed battlecruisers and destroyer rf against them in this new battle engine will produce heavy losses on them

Bcs and dessies are ment to counter lunnies.....
Currently too many fleets are 90% lunnies.
This will encourage variety and more fleet options.
I'd personally like to see cruisers (not bcs, cruisers ) buffed.

How would like them beefed up

That's your opinion, Dire... Personally, I already think BCs, dessies, and LFs are powerful enough against LGs and do counter them quite effectively, not to mention plasma canons... It looks to me like this change will somewhat weaken lunars as they are used for fleet hunting purposes, in the majority of cases...

Everyone else seems okay with this, but this worries me, as there will be a greater gap between what the very largest fleeters can do and what smaller fleeters can do when hunting mixed fleets. This is my concern. Making the average fleet harder to take out is not necessarily a good thing. Just my opinion.

if the changes mean that an LG attack would require masses of other fodder ships...,
More than before..,
and thus they now effectively weaker in new battle engine...
this would again play into the favour of the huge fleeters in the game...
who could just send double the fleet needed...
as they have them..., and the deut...
so effectively will weaken the meduim sized ppl....MORE....
so again the Q is..
does it weaken the LG ship...
in any way or format?....
if the answer is yes...
good luck then...
cause you must understand that there are already huge challenges for a med size player...
making it more difficult.., but reducing the effectiveness of the LG..,
to me an already marginal ship..., rip killer only...
and supposedly one of the star ships in a fleet...
makes no sense...
maybe the answer lies in shields...,
I dont know...
but you cannot make the LG as a ship/....WEAKER....
I been asking/aying from the start...
so stronger against rips.., but weaker against other ships..
means its weaker!!!..
will make it an expensive ship to keep... also guzzling Deut....
only the HUGE fleeters will have no problems...
as they have huge fleets/masses deut...