spy can you post one of your cr's that screwed you because im having a hard time understanding the problem here. the battle sim is far from perfect, and when it was "updated" a month or so ago, it seemed to get further from perfect, but i really havent had much of an issue. you arent the only one, most ppl are complaining about it, but i havent seen the issues you guys speak of.

when i run my sims i estimate how many BCS(still the best ship overall IMO) I need to send, and run it. soon as i get it to zero loss, i add another 15-25% ships and short of a couple times, it comes out just as i planned. im not trying to be critical really, just looking for examples so i can better see the problem. now keep in mind most of my fleeting has been smaller than you might be used to, but even vs rip's i understand because of the RF, i HAVE to include fodder or my prefered ships will get crashed. just post a cr or 2 to show what your main argument is based on.

I would like Zorg's input on this. how accurate is sim with the battle engine?

how reliable is the sim towards actual battle is?

The wrote:I don't see how the fact a RIP is even slower could affect the fact that 2 RIPs are unprofitable for 8.000 BCs

Who said they should be? Defenses are unprofitable for any ship, are you saying defenses should be wiped from the game too?
What I'm getting at is stop deciding the value of things based purely on WSA, RF and profitability. There are other factors involved in determining a ship or defences value, otherwise the EP would be the most worthless piece of crap instead of the one ship everyone uses.

Speed I would think would be one of the most important attributes in determing a ships value, reduce any ships speed and you think it should still cost the same?

The wrote:And RIPs are already used as defensive ships nowadays

By some yes, but others don't believe that and even post on the forum about players leaving any fleet at home being foolish.

TheDamned666 wrote:

The wrote:I don't see how the fact a RIP is even slower could affect the fact that 2 RIPs are unprofitable for 8.000 BCs

Who said they should be? Defenses are unprofitable for any ship, are you saying defenses should be wiped from the game too?
What I'm getting at is stop deciding the value of things based purely on WSA, RF and profitability. There are other factors involved in determining a ship or defences value, otherwise the EP would be the most worthless piece of crap instead of the one ship everyone uses.

Speed I would think would be one of the most important attributes in determing a ships value, reduce any ships speed and you think it should still cost the same?

The wrote:And RIPs are already used as defensive ships nowadays

By some yes, but others don't believe that and even post on the forum about players leaving any fleet at home being foolish.

i dont find the logic in ur analogy. in one side u consider RIP as a defenssive ship and u have no problem with its having massive rf against every defensive array except plasma.

from the start around the forum it was said that RIP were originally built for defense .... but i fail to see why they were given rf against defense if they were so much a portable defense ship.

the speed that u are talking about just going to absolutely cripple the ship. if u lessen it any farther be sure the number of ships that have been posted that takes to crash rips are all going to look way profitable with rec speed. the idea was always to put fights with normal speed for both sides.

rips are already significantly slower. any slower will just make the fuel economy of that ship totally negligible. which we have argued and made sure that for the new servers the fuel is not so low. lets not go back to square one with this.

I said it could be used for defence, I didn't say it was an outright defensive ship, the fact it produces a DF still makes other defences preferable for that role or in conjunction. I also called it a battering ram which correct me if I'm wrong is used against defences not as a defence.

Also I'm confused, am I suppose to argue against The's opinion of slowing it down won't weaken it or your opinion of slowing it down will cripple it?

Look I'm not trying to say that slowing it down is the only or even the best option but at least its heading in the direction of different ships/defences having completely different roles/attributes rather than when you all boil down to it everything being exactly the same. I'm sure that was what the developers are trying to do so why fight it when it sounds like a good idea.

TheDamned666 wrote:Look I'm not trying to say that slowing it down is the only or even the best option but at least its heading in the direction of different ships/defences having completely different roles/attributes rather than when you all boil down to it everything being exactly the same. I'm sure that was what the developers are trying to do so why fight it when it sounds like a good idea.

it seems u are not open minded about other options that u are always saying it is the only way. havent i just posted an alternative. yes to you it poses as the best way but as zorg said please come up with a number so that we can evaluate the expense of operation and comparison with other ships in respect to the game play.

the only one vital reasoning why slowing rip down wont work i think i have already given. the so called "Easy resource button for raids". no matter how far is the inactive coordinates are with a much slower rip it will just be getting resources like bonus.

in game there are players with 20 slots. just think about 20 rip raid missions out bound with a total of 100 deut cost each bringing in around 50 mil resources in total.

100 deut costs to bring in 70 mil resources.... a big imbalance to ponder on.

and i am here just mentioning about inactives try that against active players. and trust.. we have seem ppl going rip spree in game. and dont even think of getting started on over powered moon destroy. if they feul is almost 0 u wont hink second to launch them.

i think you will see why your suggestion wont work and defo is not at all close to being the best option. hope you might find a different suggestion apart from the obvious misdirection.

till them try to consider the RF re adjustments.

also there was a previously problem of rips being called in battle rounds at last, that is they are put in the stack last in line, causing them to be hit last. this is a problem. can we have stacking of ships in random order? if the current stack filling is in sequence.

lol! Considering I'm a fool and even I see the obvious flaws in your arguments I won't bother pointing them out. Lets finish this particular branch of the topic and move onto something besides speed, RF or WSA reduction.

TheDamned666 wrote:Lets finish this particular branch of the topic and move onto something besides speed, RF or WSA reduction.

i am really open to new suggestions. at least we both agree that rips needs wimping. so have all of them in the nominations. until or unless a new suggestion is posted these are the options we have to deal with at the moment.

Here are the ways RIPs readjustments are suggested in this thread. Not in the order of importance just by their order of spawning.

# RIP speeds should be lowered.
# RIP WSA should be changed.
# RIP RF against other attack ships should be readjusted.
# RIP stacking in the battle engine be randomized along with all the other ships. so that the hits wont follow in any particular order.

You have four suggestions. if one or two more suggestions can be posted then we can evaluate the worth of each and from deduction can find the worthwhile changes not necessarily just one, and give them to the dev team to try out.

Here a suggestion:

RF should not be higher than 5 on any given ship. Over that value results become way too unpredictable and this will lead to stagnant universes where nobody attack anyone which is a sure way to kill the game.

I am fine with RIP owning BC, LG owning RIP, BC owning LG (sort of). Its the level of ownage of RIP vs BC that is ridiculous which come from the rf 15 against them.

I suggest that all rf value be looked at with median result vs cost. If a median rf result allow one ship type to own more than 3 times the cost of another ship type reduce the rf value. Its just plain ridiculous that a ship type is able to own 40 times the cost of another ship type.

I now find BC to be rubbish, 40,000 crystal for 400 base shielding that does not return once vanquished.. A B-ship has 200 shielding at the cost of 1/4 the crystal.. not to mention ~1.5x the firepower(knocks the enemy down way better so that the shielding is not as much of a problem, because BC take so many round to take the enemy out)

BC are now extremely hard to no-loss now due to the fact their shield do not replenish and are so weak offensively. it is better to send b-ships since they don't cost any deut to build.. and jsut rec a few that are lost.

On a side note the new battle engine stinks.. this might not be very constructive feedback but i liked the battle engine from a year ago better