how about jumps through gates for ninja attempts?

we are argueing on the fact at the attack points the nature how RIPs behave inside battle sim or engine is dubbed unstable. they are too powerful. i have been twicking around with wsa of rips against the most formidable opponent against RIP having negative RF BC. the fact still remains that the factored scaling up for each rip added to the fleet is just staggering.

previously it was known that for 10 rip the number of BC needed to have a good chance of making good result was 8.500 unit. now it takes 8.500x6 to make a kill when the RF is at 70%.

The fact is at the first round the 10 RIP will put up an attack point of 70 rips if the RF workes with 7 against BC. for that u need ur bc fleet to sustain that much and u need around 60K BC. for a 0 loss ofc, but this is still a problem cause u have 50% chance that is out of 100 try RIP will put up 50 times with 15 RF against bc. so u are still vulnerable.

when u think about the very first round, after the initial attack absorption the bc combined attack is supposed to tear apart the RIP shields and the armor enough to cause a total annihilation. The fact remains the chance factor for RIPs creating a mssive upset with the given RF is just too much.

the losses taken until RF 7-9 for argumentation i would take 10 in consideration, that is upto RF 10 RIP has a good balance. the moment rips has RF over 11 BC has no chance at all. unless u put on a gigantic array of ships for that alone the estimated fuel cost is huge. and i doubt anyone would risk it at daily basis.

my point is we need a serious look at the RIP rf span on most ships. i would like it to be set as follows.

Rapid Fire Against Small Cargo Ship 250
Rapid Fire Against Large Cargo Ship 250
Rapid Fire Against Light Fighter 200
Rapid Fire Against Heavy Fighter 40 <<< make HF count for something to bring it back alive
Rapid Fire Against Cruiser 22
Rapid Fire Against Battleship 20
Rapid Fire Against Colony ship 250
Rapid Fire Against Recycler 250
Rapid Fire Against Espionage Ship 1250
Rapid Fire Against Bomber 25
Rapid Fire Against Solar Satellite 1250
Rapid Fire Against Destroyer 3
Rapid Fire Against Battlecruiser 10
Rapid Fire Against Elite Cargo 300
Rapid Fire Against Rocket Launcher 200
Rapid Fire Against Light Laser 200
Rapid Fire Against Heavy Laser 100
Rapid Fire Against Gauss Cannon 50
Rapid Fire Against Ion Cannon 100
Rapid Fire From Lunar Guardian 10

Firstly I agree that something has to be done. But.....

The problem is that everyone just builds BC's because of the high shields and good duet consumption and RIPS are very powerful against BC's thus everyone complains because there is no good substitute.

How about tweaking destroyer speed and deut consumption to be on par with LG's and at the same time weaken RIPS a bit?
or weaken both RIPS and LG's. Because if we weaken RIPS to far nobody will build them since a small fleet of LG's will wipe them out and at the same time if RIPS are weakened people will just go back to mono BC fleets.

ok i am sorry to say TheDude you totally missed what i just posted with specs and all. lemme try to give a different perspective.

10 RIP = 941 BC = 725 Dessies, as per their cost equivalency converted to metals.

for each of the ship types required BC fleet are as follows for a 0 loss.

against 10 RIP u need 8.500 BC
against 725 DD u need 6,163 BC
against 941 BC u need "only" 2.800 BC

mind it the above stat is for a liner estimation. the moment u put each of the above stats against RF enabled simulator the bc count against RIP goes up 7 times. where u will need only a double or triple the needed bc against DDs. you need to ask the right question here.

What causing this?
The massive RF that rips have against bc followed by any other ship types it is just too much to scale out the fleet to match the damage. with a massive rf on the ships for addition of each 10 RIPs to the defenders side u need to scale up ur bc counts as well.

And is it acceptable?
Think about the amount of df u will get from the battle of each segment. from a fleeters point of view i can assure u it looks omnious and really unprofitable as soon as the bc count multiplies by a factor of 6-8. we all know bc are cheapest to operate but just multiply the fuel cost by 6 for the increase count and u will think WHUA!!! that is gunna drain my stash right away.


i hope u see what i am suggesting is reasonable.

If BC are becoming more and more unprofitable to use, mayhaps it's time to stop relying on them so much?

Just a view from a non fleeter, my opinion doesn't matter here.

I understand what your saying BC fleets are decimated by RIPS very unfairly. What I'm saying is that why not have a destroyer/LG fleet for hitting RIPS?

then we are going back to the old case that is there can only be one superior ships in game. the objective is to get to that level and just spam it out.

RIPs for slow bashing LG for massing fleet crash. why even we have all the other ships? why are we trying to revive bombers and plasma cannons?

the players in the long run will ask the same question that resulted the above changes in last few months.. whats the point of having a bc fleet? i am not flaming i am just posting the questions that we are asking now that you will ask in a few months later.

EDIT:

TheDude wrote:I understand what your saying BC fleets are decimated by RIPS very unfairly. What I'm saying is that why not have a destroyer/LG fleet for hitting RIPS?

we are considering BC because of its low fuel costs. DD are not option for hard fleeting because they are just too bulky to operate and they costs alot to maneuver. the same reason why bc were so popular. also the fact remains i am advocating this with bc as a test case. the same result is true for all the other ship types. as u can see in my proposed rf format i have tried to reason with all the other ships that might be used to make a RIP assault.

The way I see it: tons of fairly useless BC only fleets -> build Dessies to crash them all

No tactics then. The player with the biggest fleet just wins. The current system benefits those fleets that are using the right ships for the job. IE LG vs RIP, BC and LF vs LG etc.

IMHO this is better and gives little players a better fighting chance. But there is still some imbalance between the different ships which needs to be resolved.

Agree with Weresloth

TheDude wrote:No tactics then. The player with the biggest fleet just wins. The current system benefits those fleets that are using the right ships for the job. IE LG vs RIP, BC and LF vs LG etc.

IMHO this is better and gives little players a better fighting chance. But there is still some imbalance between the different ships which needs to be resolved.

you clearly forgot the mixed fleet simulation i posted earlier. and if u read back a few of the fleeters already agreed if there is a mixed fleet just because they are associated with RIPs the result is not profit.

lemme redirect u to the post.

Gozar's Input
The's input
The mixed fleet simulation
Some feed back on the mixed fleet... players who actually tried the sim