Seth1483 wrote:i think it should be a 40% recovery, this way the defense doesnt die as soon as the second shot comes

me likezz the 40% recovery

I must question here. Apologies for the gi-normous bump and questioning.

Shandris wrote:

GRIMNIR wrote:i agree with all shandris said

ships definitely need to fire individually in a battle, it will improve the game dynamic massively

according to what the admin said they already do fire individually, it just isnt shown...

If each ship fired independently, then they would hit varying stacks in a battle, with some hitting rf on a select stack and others hitting without rf on stacks they do not possess rf on. This would remove the LF fodder glitch that currently exists in ZE and make it so that a balanced fleet becomes a necessity, removing the spam BS for the win that is currently in place. Using the result from where Myrsee got me, neither of us lost rips in the first round. That is ridiculous, because combined, we had over 2000 rips involved in that battle.

To give a good example of this, sim 1k rips w 10k bs vs 1k rips w 10k lf using 18 18 18 wsa for each

Attacker Attacker
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type B.ship RIP
Number 10.000 1.000
Weapon 2.464 638.400
Shield 487 168.000
Armor 16.800 2.100.000

Defender Defender
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type L. Fighter RIP
Number 10.000 1.000
Weapon 165 492.800
Shield 23 114.800
Armor 840 2.100.000
The attacking fleet fires 136 times for a total of 86.847.040.000 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 91.121.163 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 9 times for a total of 4.436.852.000 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 88.798.181 points of damage.

Attacker Attacker [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 1.000
Weapon 543.200
Shield 114.800
Armor 2.100.000

Defender Defender [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 1.000
Weapon 632.800
Shield 127.400
Armor 2.100.000
The attacking fleet fires 1 times for a total of 543.200.000 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 127.400.000 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 632.799.999 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 114.800.000 points of damage.

Attacker Attacker [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 754
Weapon 565.600
Shield 126.000
Armor 2.100.000

Defender Defender [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 802
Weapon 621.600
Shield 151.200
Armor 2.100.000
The attacking fleet fires 1 times for a total of 426.462.400 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 121.262.400 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 498.523.200 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 95.004.000 points of damage.

Attacker Attacker [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 562
Weapon 543.200
Shield 131.600
Armor 2.100.000

Defender Defender [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 657
Weapon 464.800
Shield 142.800
Armor 2.100.000
The attacking fleet fires 1 times for a total of 305.278.400 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 93.819.600 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 305.373.600 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 73.959.200 points of damage.

Attacker Attacker [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 452
Weapon 582.400
Shield 145.600
Armor 2.100.000

Defender Defender [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 557
Weapon 543.200
Shield 137.200
Armor 2.100.000
The attacking fleet fires 1 times for a total of 263.244.799 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 76.420.400 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 302.562.400 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 65.811.199 points of damage.

Attacker Attacker [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 340
Weapon 660.800
Shield 134.400
Armor 2.100.000

Defender Defender [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 469
Weapon 582.400
Shield 119.000
Armor 2.100.000
The attacking fleet fires 1 times for a total of 224.672.000 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 55.810.999 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 273.145.600 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 45.696.000 points of damage.

Attacker Attacker [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 127
Weapon 0
Shield 0
Armor 0

Defender Defender [0:0:0]
Weapons: 180 % Armor: 180 % Shields: 180 %
Type RIP
Number 348
Weapon 0
Shield 0
Armor 0
The attacking fleet fires times for a total of 131.219.199 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 0 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back times for a total of 248.337.599 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 0 points of damage.
The battle ends in a tie !
The attacker has lost a total of 7.147.500.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 4.920.000.000 units.
A debris field containing 4.884.000.000 units of Metal and 2.356.500.000 units of Crystal has formed in orbit around the planet.
The probability of creating a moon is : 18 %

In this case, the attacker does 86 bil in damage in the first round, yes a lot to rf, but the rips continue firing long after the defender's lfs are gone. As a result, a better fleet can be destroyed by a smaller one that should not really do the trick. If ships had fired independently, then this situation could not and should not occur.

I was explaining the same issue here:
http://www.zorgempire.com/forums/viewto ... f=6&t=5135

Its kinda like 2 big armies facing eachother and the entire army aims at a small group of people the first time they fire there gun. like putting overkill lead into a few unlucky persons.
sure its possible but unlikely to be realistic.
Yet in this game its 100% the case in these situations.

Administrator wrote:I spent some time reading the latest post regarding firing.

The messages in Zorg Empire are descriptive and not specific. When our message reads "Attacker fleet fires for 3 times" it means that there were 2 extra attacks because of rapid fire. We find no reason to include the number of ships firing there. For us it has more meaning to see there the rapid fire shoots rather than the total of your ships. This does not mean that the ships have not shot individually. Same goes for damage and shield absorption.

We once opened a simulator we use for the beta testing for the game, for a few days. This simulator had more details than our current one and it was like 5 pages long for each battle. If someone would like to put all details on, every battle would be at least 50 pages long.

Rest assured that shooting takes place exactly as it should and nothing needs to be changed here.

What keep confusing you, is that RF is against a specific stack each time. This is a different issue though from individual ship firing.

I wish the battles were more tactical, where you can control where your fleet goes while in battle on a grid or something and be able to divide it into squadrons and having special attacks for each kind of ship. Is that a little to much to ask for?

Yes. This game isn't completely focused on battle tactics. You have to rely on RF for that.

Ok, i was just thinking of a game my friend has at home.

while I agree that the best fleet is a balanced one. I say that the two strongest ships out there right now are the Death Star and The Battlecruiser. For small time raids battleships are great but overall I go with the two I just mentioned.

Please tell me this is a bug that can be fixed!
A fleet of 300 DS and 1000 LF takes on very heavy defenses and loses absolutely no Death Stars!!???
So the entire defending force concentrates all firepower of the first shot on the tiny LF force while the Attacking force concentrates on the biggest threat. That just does not seem quite right.
Result: attacker loses only 3M while defender loses 530M

Obviously the attacking fleet is powerful so I'm not suggesting that the defender should win in this scenario. However I think that the 530M worth of defenses should provide a lot better deterrent than 3M losses for the attacker.

This problem could be improved by setting the defending fleet to attack the biggest threat first.



The following fleets faced Wed, 12 Jan 2011 06:34:47 +0000 :


Attacker Weapons: 195 % Shields: 195 % Armor: 195 %
Type L. Fighter RIP
Number 1.000 300
Weapon 126 548.800
Shield 32 133.000
Armor 840 2.100.000



Defender
Weapons: 180 % Shields: 190 % Armor: 180 %
Type Solar Sat E.Cargo R. Launcher Light Laser. Heavy Laser Gauss Cannon Ion Cannon Plasma Cannon S. Shield Dome L. Shield Dome
Number 2.500 5 3.569 389.318 3.921 393 6.151 322 1 1
Weapon 2 13 211 288 763 3.326 361 8.988 0 0
Shield 33 167 61 67 241 622 1.386 924 5.656 32.760
Armor 160 870.000 725 290 1.885 8.700 2.175 29.000 5.800 29.000



The attacking fleet fires 55 times for a total of 9.055.326.000 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 490.559.056 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 122.451.338 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 28.289.641 points of damage.


Attacker
Weapons: 195 % Shields: 195 % Armor: 195 % Type RIP
Number 300
Weapon 571.200
Shield 113.400
Armor 2.100.000



Defender
Weapons: 180 % Shields: 190 % Armor: 180 % Type E.Cargo R. Launcher Heavy Laser Gauss Cannon Plasma Cannon S. Shield Dome L. Shield Dome
Number 5 1.873 3.579 393 322 1 1
Weapon 16 269 595 3.203 8.652 0 0
Shield 115 64 255 582 689 5.040 30.800
Armor 870.000 725 1.885 8.700 29.000 5.800 29.000



The attacking fleet fires 1 times for a total of 171.360.000 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 1.515.547 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 6.677.847 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 6.677.847 points of damage.


Attacker
Weapons: 195 % Shields: 195 % Armor: 195 %
Type RIP
Number 300
Weapon 666.400
Shield 159.600
Armor 2.100.000



Defender
Weapons: 180 % Shields: 190 % Armor: 180 %
Type E.Cargo Plasma Cannon L. Shield Dome
Number 5 22 1
Weapon 16 9.408 0
Shield 134 974 24.640
Armor 870.000 29.000 29.000



The attacking fleet fires 1 times for a total of 199.920.000 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 46.748 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 207.057 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 207.057 points of damage.


Attacker
Weapons: 195 % Shields: 195 % Armor: 195 %
Type RIP
Number 300
Weapon 504.000
Shield 114.800
Armor 2.100.000



Defender
Weapons: 180 % Shields: 190 % Armor: 180 %
Destroyed!
The attacker has won the battle !
You receive 2603590 units of Metal, 989112 units of Crystal and 456654 units of Deuterium.
The attacker has lost a total of 3.000.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 530.344.500 units.
A debris field containing 5.475.000 units of Metal and 6.150.000 units of Crystal has formed in orbit around the planet.
The probability of creating a moon is : 19 %

Report created in 0.0024528503418 seconds

I was complaining last year for the battle engine to be changed. From what i have heard, the admins are happy with this one, so we will have to man up and just take it. For all those who will say i am bias, I lost my original fleet last August when my 53bil damage fired into nothingness from the same thing. Fact is, the battle engine won't be altered for this.