Not a fan of you getting a 3000% damage increase on your LL, kuddlez

Im sure you, along with every other person that isnt too fond of my beastly shell, are exactly a fan of it... but I am

Well as seen in the image above the LL is way overpowered....
If you use resource value of 1 rip you can build:
LL = 10.392
HL= 1.755
RL = 5.300
ION= 1.325
GAUS= 294
PC's = 66

Number of rips for flawless victory vs 100x(100rips) above numbers.
LL = 2.700
HL= 1.200
RL = 1.100
ION= 500
GAUS= 800
PC's = 500
This is the most important of defences, to keep attackers away because of losses. when someone is able to raid you with 0 loss they might do it for small profits..

For defence the only thing that matters is damage, since the attacker will always send enough fleet to gain a near or flawless victory else there would be no profit.
(so for the attacker the only thing that matters are shields to stop all dmg, since when you send enough fleet to 0 out dmg there is almost always enough dmg to kill the enemy in 5 rounds).

The only way firepower becomes less improtant as defence is if someone decides to go for 100% ions.

But anyway the LL needs 27x the cost in rips while next to that its heavy lasers at 12x
Thats more then double.....

I still beleave the amount the attacker needs to send should be reasonably high, else defences would become useless to build. This is due to how shielding works differently than in the many other games like zorg. In other games there are always some losses even if you send an enourmous amount of ships. Atleast thats what I've been told.

So I propose to lower the LL somewhat in damage and raise the others.
LL = 50dmg (currently 100dmg)
HL= 300dmg (currently 250dmg)
RL = 80dmg (currently 80dmg, this is ok for the high structure)
ION= 150dmg (currently 150dmg, this is ok since this is used for shielding)
GAUS= 1.900dmg (currently 1.100dmg)
PC's = 9.000dmg (currently 3.000dmg)

9k dmg seems insane but it really isn't for a defence structure.
For all statistics see above image. (i made this excel sheet mainly for calculating flawless ratios)
Been simming for couple hours for this info ......

I completely agree with both PC and Gauss increase. They are both supposed to be 'elite' defensive structures, kind of like the battleship, destroyer, and battlecruiser... Yet they are somewhat the most worthless! I want to build Gauss and PC but I cannot...because they Suck.

No, they don't need massive increases. The LL will be destroyed first round almost always, so they will only get one shot off, while PC can live very long, and easily all 6 with a few ions ahead of them. Combine that with RF, and I think you may find that they are both still pretty good. I think 4,500 for PC and 1,500 for guass is more reasonable.

Gauss and pc are so terrible if they do survive more rounds all their damage is negated by shields-rendering them useless. Sure you can argue that I didn't build enough- But it's because they're so terrible for the cost

Thatguyeric wrote:No, they don't need massive increases. The LL will be destroyed first round almost always, so they will only get one shot off, while PC can live very long, and easily all 6 with a few ions ahead of them. Combine that with RF, and I think you may find that they are both still pretty good. I think 4,500 for PC and 1,500 for guass is more reasonable.

To get the Attack:Cost ratio the same as the LL, PC's need a 5x+ increase in attack.

Regardless of if they last past the first round or not, they suck every round. It doesn't matter than they can fire 5-6 rounds, because in those 5-6 rounds, they still fire for less than the LL did in 1.

However, I do agree that a 3x increase for PC attack is a bit too much. Eric is right in that they DO last multiple rounds, therefore multiple rounds of damage. 2x should be plenty, I think...

Here is what you can somewhat match to upgrading/downgrading the weapons by just increasing the number or decreasing the number of defences to what they should normally cost.

Light lasers reduced to 1/2 shield 1/2 dmg (sadly struct also goes 1/2 in simming)
LL /2 (100rip cost) = 519600 LL (half struct/shield/dmg)

VS

100rips= 25-48 rips
200rips= 134-157 rips
300rips= 239-263 rips
400rips=
500rips= 452-480 rips
600rips=
700rips= 661-693 rips
800rips=
900rips= 872-900 rips
1000rips=
1100rips=
1200rips= 1198-1200 rips
1300rips= 1300 rips (flawless)


Current Zorg Empire statistics:
PC (50rip cost) = 3300 PC's
IONS (50rip cost) = 66250 IONS (fun stuff : these 66250 ions do the same dmg as the 3300pc's making pc useless atm)

VS

100rips= 0 Rip vs flawless defence
200rips= 183-192 rips
300rips= 177-192 rips
400rips= 392-400 rips
500rips= 500 rips (flawless)
600rips= 600 rips (flawless)
700rips= 700 rips (flawless)
800rips= 800 rips (flawless)
900rips= 900 rips (flawless)



PC double power (sim also tripples struct and shield....)
PC * 2 (100rip cost) = 13200 PC's (double struct/shield/dmg)

VS

100rips= 10k-11k pc's
200rips= 83-128rips
300rips=
400rips=
500rips= 474-496rips
600rips=
700rips=
800rips= 789-800 Rips (flawless)
900rips= 898-900 Rips (flawless)
1000rips= 1000rips (flawless)


PC double power (sim also tripples struct and shield....)
PC * 2 (50rip cost) = 6600 PC's (double struct/shield/dmg)
IONS (50rip cost) = 66250 IONS

VS

100rips= 0 Rip vs flawless defence
200rips= 148-161 rips
300rips=
400rips= 381-394 rips
500rips= 490-500 rips
600rips= 592-600 rips
700rips= 697-700 rips
800rips= 800 Rips (flawless)
900rips= 900 Rips (flawless)


PC Triple power (sim also tripples struct and shield....)
PC * 3 (50rip cost) = 9900 PC's (tripple struct/shield/dmg)
IONS (50rip cost) = 66250 IONS

VS

100rips= 0 Rip vs flawless defence
200rips= random winner mostly rips
300rips= 232-252 rips
400rips=
500rips=
600rips= 579-595 rips
700rips=
800rips=
900rips= 899-900 rips
1000rips=1000 rips (flawless)
1100rips=1100 rips (flawless)
1200rips=1200 rips (flawless)
1300rips=1300 rips (flawless)


PC tripple power (sim also tripples struct and shield....)
PC * 3 (100rip cost) = 19800 PC's (tripple struct/shield/dmg)

VS

100rips= around 18k pc's left
200rips= 12k-14k pc left
300rips= 128-248rips
400rips= 298-347rips
500rips= 423-463rips
600rips= 544-578rips
700rips= 654-685rips
800rips= 770-787rips
900rips= 875-893rips
1000rips= 980-1000rips
1100rips= 1081-1000rips
1200rips= 1182-1000rips
1300rips= 1283-1300rips
1400= 1395-1400rips (mostly flawless)
1500rips= 1500 (flawless)

Since I had to sim 3x the amount of pc's making the structure points go up 3x as well.
The loss in rips should b slightnly lower in the lower rip counts. but the flawless rip win would still be around 1500, since just before that point there is only loss in the 1st rounds.


All test done at techlevels 17

So IONS only safes your defences if the attack would send a fleet about the same value. (wich is never the case unless there fools.....)
in all other sims all defences got destroyed, so it matters little how many round they survive.

I downloaded the image from dexterln to study later

Just a notice though, next time use at least 10 as minimum testing amount. Using 1 as minimum does not provide realistic battle conditions and it has a slightly different result which is caused by the shield different amount.

Also, it would be fruitful if everyone was following their own analysis with proposals.