i think most of the problem with the ll are that its stats are the same as other games but its cost is a lot less, in other games it costs 1.500m and 500c for same stats as here

maybe bump cost back up to that?

1.500m and 500c

this ofcouse means the other games a LL has 2000 structure points?

dexternl wrote:

1.500m and 500c

this ofcouse means the other games a LL has 2000 structure points?

He's got a point. For 1.7x the cost, you'd get 2x the Structure points and everything else would be the same...I don't think that would solve anything...As it stands now, somewhere around 7-8k is a win for LL most of the time. With the pricing set, it would take 5889 LL to equal the cost of the RIPs. Those never win, but considering that the "new" LL would have twice the structure points, I don't think it would matter.

I think the problem is that Zorg's Battle Engine calculates battles different than the original Engine does. So, pricing stuff the same as other games won't solve anything. This is a different game, despite the similarities. It has to be treated as a different game.

Simply create a table with edited Defense stats. Tweak power and shielding until it seems correct and have Zorg test it out and then post the results, mayhaps?

double the structure isnt as steep as you think you know, the deciding factor in battle is always shields, armour being doubled for ll wouldnt make much of a difference combat wise since it is still very low compared to ships damage, but the cost being increased would make a big difference to people being able to mass produce them like they do, and might make them more interested in other defenses

edit - few days ago i crashed a small fleet of bs and destroyers that were hiding behind a defense of 16.7k ll, i did it with just 5k bc (probably could have sent less), there you have it, shields are the deciding factor, not armour

Urweirdsaysi wrote:I think the problem is that Zorg's Battle Engine calculates battles different than the original Engine does. So, pricing stuff the same as other games won't solve anything. This is a different game, despite the similarities. It has to be treated as a different game.

This is quite simply false. It is trivially easy to show that there is no difference between the way damage is applied in the non-RF volley between the two games. The only difference is the text on the report. If it makes you feel better to see "the attacker fires a hundred thousand times" rather than 5 times in a round of combat, then I suggest you make a sticky note and place it on your screen.

This thread started out with the intention of making turtling easier, because it is too easy for fire and forget RIP raids to capture daily resource production. I'm not exactly sure how making LL more expensive would help in this matter.

Shaftoe wrote:

Urweirdsaysi wrote:I think the problem is that Zorg's Battle Engine calculates battles different than the original Engine does. So, pricing stuff the same as other games won't solve anything. This is a different game, despite the similarities. It has to be treated as a different game.

This is quite simply false. It is trivially easy to show that there is no difference between the way damage is applied in the non-RF volley between the two games. The only difference is the text on the report. If it makes you feel better to see "the attacker fires a hundred thousand times" rather than 5 times in a round of combat, then I suggest you make a sticky note and place it on your screen.

As it stands now, all ships of a single type are calculated as one ship. 500k LL is seen as a single, massive unit. In similar games, if I'm not mistaken, if a RIP targets a LL and destroys it, (Which it will if it hits it) then it won't RF on anything else. 1 RIP can now target 200 LL, instead of 1 RIP targeting 1 LL.

Yes, the non-RF volley may be the same, but we have RF. So I'm not sure how non-RF can even be discussed in a logical manner...

I had some idea right now,
Why not use the useless techs to improve the rather useless defences.
-plasma tech
-ion tech
-laser tech

i think that would be an great improvement to the usefullness of the research techs.
And it gives you something todo

(after this change only hyperspace tech,grav tech, IRN would remain useless at higher levels)

This also gives some credit to the people that didn't read the forums, since it isn't explained anywhere else upgrading these techs is useless. And reseached these techs anyway. uhmmm like meh..... (started reading the forums 1/2 year after playing.... big mistake. (oh 100fields planets are bad? didn't realize from beginning..... )).

dexternl wrote:I had some idea right now,
Why not use the useless techs to improve the rather useless defences.
-plasma tech
-ion tech
-laser tech

i think that would be an great improvement to the usefullness of the research techs.
And it gives you something todo

(after this change only hyperspace tech,grav tech, IRN would remain useless at higher levels)

This also gives some credit to the people that didn't read the forums, since it isn't explained anywhere else upgrading these techs is useless. And reseached these techs anyway. uhmmm like meh..... (started reading the forums 1/2 year after playing.... big mistake. (oh 100fields planets are bad? didn't realize from beginning..... )).

Exactly. you should start a new thread with the suggestion we make ion and plasma technology increase defense/damage of their respected defensive structures.

PC are supposed to be the best but time and time again people have factored in the costs and PC are possibly the WORST defensive structure in the game.

edit:even RL fair better if simmed versus RIPS!(same cost at standard 3:2:1 ratio) rediculous, RL are available at the beginning of the game.

Server stats:

Defense Type - Amount
Rocket Launcher - 25,962,302
Light Laser - 76,220,151
Heavy Laser - 6,502,093
Gauss Cannon - 910,562
Ion Cannon - 3,699,543
Plasma Cannon - 541,709


From my understanding so far, if we boost Plasma Cannons, things will become better for turtles.

Zorg wrote:Server stats:

Defense Type - Amount
Rocket Launcher - 25,962,302
Light Laser - 76,220,151
Heavy Laser - 6,502,093
Gauss Cannon - 910,562
Ion Cannon - 3,699,543
Plasma Cannon - 541,709


From my understanding so far, if we boost Plasma Cannons, things will become better for turtles.

that will be kuddlez' shell in a month or two

no but seriously, those numbers make my fleet cry

boosting pc is a good idea i think, either that or reduce their cost