Zorg wrote:If I am not mistaken, this complain derives from a X-TREME player who border lined the protection rules to keep his fleet out of reach from bigger players. I am mostly guessing that the most irritating part is that through fleet control, a player can define when he will be out and when he will be in the protection, which gives him an advantage. This is though the perspective of view from those who complain.

In my perspective, I somewhat fail to see what kind of advantage this is that merely protects you from a guy with 100x more points than you or 200x or 1000x. The enemy is still larger, bigger and continues to grow as well.

In my perspective, looking Standard example, I find player protection to be working well for our game. Standard server, which has been the least populated server is constantly gaining ground.

In my perspective, it is not even a big issue. If you look at the number of posters complaining, my words can be proven.

Complaining is one thing. Providing working solutions is another. I want to give credit to Gozar who said that we should maintain it but also put a time limit. It is a solution yes, coming from the player who first suggested we increase this protection (beyond the initial 100k). A solution that is not really necessary, as I see facts.

I am open to be proved that I am wrong though. With the right arguments though; specific and to the point. Not with the cheap arguments that are used everywhere else. I am here to help after all.

To be fair the initial protection here in Xtreme was 10k... and has increased like inflation the bigger players have become...and imo..a reasonable option.

However I feel the main issue with the misuse of the player protection rule is as follows...
You CANNOT attack this Player (Protection up to x5 or down to 1/5 of your points till 10k). this is still the message you receive when you probe a player in protection.. However..by allowing a players fleet score to be out of the equation...the true value of this abuse is clear... at under 200k points a supernoob should be allowed to attack players x5...above or below.. fair if your account is that value...but being able to attack with 100 thousand + LG...is clear you are not x5 stronger but 50,000 times.... the player that is being attacked has absolutely no hope or protection.. This issue has nothing to do with bigger fleeters not being able to attack these supernoobs... just like the fleeter that hides behind a huge Ruby moon,sooner or later they make a mistake.. or get ninja'd..

It is simply this type of player is abusing a rule just the same as someone abusing a discovered bug.. The idea of the player protection rule is to give new players time to learn the game...the suppernoob is not allowing this to happen... So either put a time limit on player protection as previously stated ...or just remove player protection completely....because in reality there is no player protection against the supernoob anyway.. make it the same for all.

i dont see it as abusing a rule to play that way, people say super noobs are abusing the rule how so cause they hide fleet to stay under while also not being able to building research or buildings. its a trade off, yes they might have big guns, but their building defense and reserch is still low, catch them and they are hurt really hurt. i play as a super noob, i have over a mil fleet and hardly nothing else trust me, its not as fun as ppl think, hunting is weak as its not as many noobs to kill as ppl seem to say. and the higher players still or 100 times bigger, yea i might hit someone a few times a week under 200k and make 100 mil res but then that same time period you have a player that farmed for 1 bil in res. might as well cap how much you can farm in a week to then. how can anyone catch up to the top when the top farms for a billion plus a week. it takes skill and luck to play super noob. more so then most cause if we slip up we start from nothing. i see it as a new play style same as fleeting turtle miner, and i read somewhere that more and more super noobs are poping up in game, that only means new ppl are joining and actully staying as this play style takes alot of attn, isnt that what you all wanted was new ppl to stay, just cause they dont play ur game style doesnt means change is bad, all games change and this is one of those things and it has made more active players and before anyone says well they make ppl quit, really ppl its not as many new players to hit as you guys throw out its a struggling hunting these days most ppl we hit are not new players

king440 wrote:i dont see it as abusing a rule to play that way, people say super noobs are abusing the rule how so cause they hide fleet to stay under while also not being able to building research or buildings. its a trade off, yes they might have big guns, but their building defense and reserch is still low, catch them and they are hurt really hurt. i play as a super noob, i have over a mil fleet and hardly nothing else trust me, its not as fun as ppl think, hunting is weak as its not as many noobs to kill as ppl seem to say. and the higher players still or 100 times bigger, yea i might hit someone a few times a week under 200k and make 100 mil res but then that same time period you have a player that farmed for 1 bil in res. might as well cap how much you can farm in a week to then. how can anyone catch up to the top when the top farms for a billion plus a week. it takes skill and luck to play super noob. more so then most cause if we slip up we start from nothing. i see it as a new play style same as fleeting turtle miner, and i read somewhere that more and more super noobs are poping up in game, that only means new ppl are joining and actully staying as this play style takes alot of attn, isnt that what you all wanted was new ppl to stay, just cause they dont play ur game style doesnt means change is bad, all games change and this is one of those things and it has made more active players and before anyone says well they make ppl quit, really ppl its not as many new players to hit as you guys throw out its a struggling hunting these days most ppl we hit are not new players

Given the nature of a game if you are not fresh out of the gate you can only ever hope to be among the top but not the top I think most players realize and accept this. Super noobs can be a problem if they discourage new players from playing however I feel as they can also be a huge boon to the teaching aspect of the game as well. Provided that the super noob take the initiative to be a teacher. I have suggested it before and I will suggest it again, Why not have a public score and a private score, The public on acts a normal and the private one keeps tallies on total fleet count the whole time even if it is in the air past the check digit.

i as a super noob player feel a time limit would be ok, after a certain time you lose protection. i dont want to super noob forever anyway. if i can survive as a super noob then later when i do start building ill have mastered the fs aspect of it, i say yes lets make it time based protection

king440 wrote:i as a super noob player feel a time limit would be ok, after a certain time you lose protection. i dont want to super noob forever anyway. if i can survive as a super noob then later when i do start building ill have mastered the fs aspect of it, i say yes lets make it time based protection

Even a "super noob" is happy to play within a time limit....90%+ also agree....for once Zorg...can we implement a player base suggestion???????? Stop implementing ideas only you thought of/and/or one player requested and start listening to the players please.....

Sprog, the very fact that you are allowed to post ****, it does not mean that you are also right.

We have implemented countless of player suggestions and we have heard the players to countless of things as well. Coming here and hitting at administration like we are not doing this is called sour grapes.

The way I see it, is that you have a problem with a game feature and you want it changed. You start your rant here with 2 more friends and you are completely focused in getting rid of it, ignoring all the other factors that are chained to what you want to change.

If you really want to see it changed, you need to address my response and provide solutions. Gozar is the only one here that did it following my last response.

Throwing mud and criticizing administration like a spoiled kid, even if you aren't, is not providing a solution to the current problem You might see it as simple but we do not:
http://www.zorgempire.net/forums/viewto ... 35#p131135

As the original poster of this topic, the original author of this topic, even though the heading has been changed by another to deflect away from my original ideas, the general feeling and reasoning behind this topic, my thoughts, (Not heading) is pretty much in agreement with what Sprog has posted.

So, in effect, he is agreeing with the original meaning of this topic, albeit, the heading is not mine.

"king440 wrote:
i as a super noob player feel a time limit would be ok, after a certain time you lose protection. i dont want to super noob forever anyway. if i can survive as a super noob then later when i do start building ill have mastered the fs aspect of it, i say yes lets make it time based protection"

Sprog is in agreement with the sentiments put here.

If that is seen as some sort of attack because he is in agreement with one party and not the other, then it's a sad indictment of the way things are read.

I've thought about this a lot, and my opinion has evolved. The simple truth is this: Super noobs still can't hit players who are five times below them in points. As I've said before, this means that a super noob with just below 200k points still can't hit players with less then around 35k or 40k points. If the concern here was really about new players, I would expect more people to be complaining about protection on Massacre, which is still only 25k. Yet no one is complaining about that as viscerally as they are complaing about super noobs. This leads me to believe that even though everyone is insisting the concern is really about new players getting crashed, the true concern is with super noobs who make themselves a little harder to hunt and hit.

There's a way to test this: Raise protection to a million points in X. The super noobs will increase their point level to just under a million accordingly, and now they will not be able to hit players below about 200k (because of the 5x protection rule). Super noobs are currently staying below the 200k threshold as a strategy to protect themselves, not simply so they can hit small players.

Zorg has stated the ability to play this way is a game feature rather than a loophole. In light of the dynamics on X, a server where a single player can pop ruby moons and send unninjaable MDs, the appeal of the super noob playstyle is surely understandable. I used to be against it on the grounds that it made new players vulnerable to larger players too quickly. But, as I said, my opinion has evolved, and the sacrifices involved with playing as a supernoob are not insignificant. If the concern is really new players, again, simply up protection in X to 1 million and that should solve it... But I doubt too many will be happy with this solution, because their real concern is not about protecting new players - what truly bothers them is the fact that super noobs hide in protection to make themselves harder to hunt and are able to hit players that the largest players are unable to touch.

I agree with some of what you say. But the last paragraph is reading something in to this that is frankly wrong.

Raising protection, the initial idea is great. I argued for this a long time ago. At that time players came, players went. Just as an example, Standard, again. The protection was 10k points. 1 point scored for everywhere 1000 in combined resources "spent". So, you can see, 10k points was easily attainable in no time at all. Players would come to that server, get hit before they were even given a chance to learn. The one million point protection was introduced, now, that's one hell of a jump. It's worked. Players seem to be more willing to stay. They are safe, or so you would think, from experienced players who are playing the game to their full potential. Growing, raiding, fleeting, researching, building, playing the game to the best of their abilities. There is a little bit of complacency, but if they join a good alliance, listen to hints and tips, then this complacency ceases.

However, super noobs make this player protection useless. There is no point in it being there if certain players can still wipe them out because they do not play the account to the best of their abilities. They hide below a certain score JUST to be able to hit newbs. They would argue that it is a tactic to ensure their own safety from bigger players. Convenient. If this is the case, why have they no qualms about squashing newbs? The players that are true newbs, the ones that haven't learned yet.

The question is, why does new player protection exist in the first place?

Once again, I would point out what Zorg STILL says about protection:-

"*Is there any kind of protection for new players ?
-Yes. The protection intends to protect new players till they learn the very basics."

The ONLY way around this as I personally see it, is, have that score protection. but ALSO have a finite time limit for protection. 3 months, 6 months, a year? Whatever is deemed acceptable by the powers that be.

Give new players a chance to learn then remove those restrictions. It's the only way to cease this discussion.

mightyoz wrote:There is no point in it being there if certain players can still wipe them out because they do not play the account to the best of their abilities. They hide below a certain score JUST to be able to hit newbs. They would argue that it is a tactic to ensure their own safety from bigger players. Convenient. If this is the case, why have they no qualms about squashing newbs? The players that are true newbs, the ones that haven't learned yet.

You're wrong about this. But if you don't believe me, there is a way to test it: Raise protection again, and you will see supernoobs increase their points accordingly. This happened when protection on X was raised to 200k. It would happen again if protection were raised still higher... If you don't believe me, it can be tested... Raise protection again, and super noobs will increase in point level accordingly... I'm not sure I see a compelling reason to do this, but if you want proof, this would nonetheless be a way to get it. Suber noob-ing is a strategy most players have adopted to give them the ability to hide and stay safe, not just to hit noobs. Protection is not useless for new players. Players out of the super noob's range are still entirely protected. This means all players below about 35-40k points on X. This would move up to around 200k if protection were increased to a million. It's arguable it might even be a good thing for a noob to learn to deal with a super noob before they have to deal with a top player sending tens of thousands of RIPs at them.

None of the players who are complaining now have had qualms about crushing noobs when protection was lower. It is the fact that they cannot hit these players now but others can that is getting everyone here riled up, even if no one will admit it.