and since this thread is not only about moons, but about increasing strategic options:
here's a copy of my earlier post...sorry...put in the wrong thread earlier


well then...
I stick to my earlier proposal, that there should be an option in the game where alien tech for faster engines or better weapons can be obtained by expeditions...chances of succes 10%...
- once obtained, tech study slot comes open for study, cause new tech needs to be studied
- to be of actual use you need alien resources to fuel this alien tech, again expedition 10 % successrate
- fueled and studied alien tech can be applied on top of say engines for speed or weapons or shields for strength
- boost is in percent...so say 10% boost over regular lvl or 20 or 30....you can stack techs...
- is one time use only! you can attack a player, boost your weapons, say 30% by stacking 3 alien tech with the fuel for that one attack.
- you wanna do it again? go get the fuel for it, by sending expeditions
- limit amount of stacks....say 5....you can have either 50% weapons boost...or divide over 5 techs...engines, shields, etc and all 5 have 10% boost
- again...only 1 time use
- have the alien tech or fuel "go bad" so there's no resource hording of this stuff, once gathered, it needs to be used within the week or it will be of no use...

this will help in gameplay:
1. a fight between small and big is no longer a "dead" end for the smaller guy
2. the endresult still is player versus player, so the end goal of obtaining this stuff is to have an advantage over the other
3. expedition serves a greater purpose now
4. there's no everlasting advantage, you have to continue doing this, but it enables otherwise unobtainable goals

my 2 rubies

feel free to disagree!

As I mentioned before I have no issues with "new" players getting one free moon to start....that doesn't mean every existing player should be able to fleet save to it.....that's the main reason inactives with ruby moons who got "paid" 50 rubies to stop deletion were vmoded....too many took advantage of this and that ultimately costs Zorg lost revenue....don't keep blaming it on lost farms....we all know what happened.

Personally when I started I thought ACS depots were for alliance members to f/s to .......not just anyone. Too easy for people to set up bogus accounts as Zorg stated before just to give themselves a nearby farm and f/s point.

It's those little game rule "manipulations" that stop Zorg implemeneting what would otherwise be good ideas...some people just can't help themselves lol.

Let's just hope loads of accounts aren't being set up now by people in vmode just to prove this very point.

Someone also mentioned an "in game" tutorial.....great idea ...step by step with small rewards (once again for reasons given above)

One more thing (for now) ...I did suggest an offline button for buddies...it was accepted by Zorg

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11355

this still hasn't happened as yet....

Sprog wrote:As I mentioned before I have no issues with "new" players getting one free moon to start....that doesn't mean every existing player should be able to fleet save to it.....that's the main reason inactives with ruby moons who got "paid" 50 rubies to stop deletion were vmoded....too many took advantage of this and that ultimately costs Zorg lost revenue....don't keep blaming it on lost farms....we all know what happened.

Personally when I started I thought ACS depots were for alliance members to f/s to .......not just anyone. Too easy for people to set up bogus accounts as Zorg stated before just to give themselves a nearby farm and f/s point.

It's those little game rule "manipulations" that stop Zorg implemeneting what would otherwise be good ideas...some people just can't help themselves lol.

Let's just hope loads of accounts aren't being set up now by people in vmode just to prove this very point.

Someone also mentioned an "in game" tutorial.....great idea ...step by step with small rewards (once again for reasons given above)

One more thing (for now) ...I did suggest an offline button for buddies...it was accepted by Zorg

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11355

this still hasn't happened as yet....

on the inactive moons to survive;
not true, it just isn't --> I have five big enough to be safe...well...for now that is...lol
and since I am an alliance member, with acs on those moons, everyone in this alliance can use my moons...
so your before mentioned argument therefor is non existant...(well at least in my case, can't speak for anyone else)

agree on the acs idea, thought that was for alliance mates only

never knew about the BB or buddy-button!
i like that!

my 2 rubies

I find it somewhat funny...All this talk about changing moons phalanx options creating mines/ships/missiles... It appears everyone wishes to completely change the original game dynamics... This game is an adaptation of a game original played on a different server....Some of us played there before we came here... That game is older and almost unchanged from the original concepts started here ( apart from some over designed graphics) than this version....all be it is so much slower.. and yet still does well...Though personally I still prefer this version.

If we look at the original concept and how the majority that have done well went through to get where they are now...it seems some of you wish to penalize these players...

The main point is to increase player base..and retention...Not handy cap the existing players and distort the game beyond recognition. Take me or any of the top players out of the equation..and you are telling every new player that joins ..."do well and you will be punished/penalized "....where is the incentive to do well in that...

Take Zorg's option on moon destroy % reduced to 75% ..ok that is not to good ..but to increase the risk of fleet destruction also to 75% is making MD mission suicide mission.. thus No one would do them.. therefore any size moon would be good.. no need for ruby moons ..( dramatic drop in ruby purchase.) and almost no need for phalanx..

Once you start changing game dynamics....the knock on effect is exponential....and I can assure you will end in less players..in the long run.

Going back to the main point.. new players and retaining them.. Options that will help and keep the game as it should be..

1. Yes good idea to start with a moon on home world.. (No moon should be unpoppable )

2. All ruby options covering build and production should be free to a new player for a given time frame ( say 1 month for example)

3. Noob protection does not need to change.. it has already increased ten fold from 10k to 100k.. this is more than enough, a player can develop to the point of Rip building with in this lvl) So this is good.. What is needed is protection from the superN00b.. this type of player (in my opinion) is more responsible for new players quitting than anything else...Because in effect they do not have PROTECTION..someone somewhere always comes along and abuses an option within this game..
A new player is far more likely to quit in the 1st few day/weeks if he is hit by this type of player... The fairest option for this is the original option...as soon as you fleet lands..it shows on your score.. thus pushes you out of n00b protection.. Keeping the real n00bs safe from such bottom feeders..

Something already said by weresloth is also needed.."an in-depth tutorial system would definitely help retain new players. As it is, most people who join have no idea what they're doing and quickly leave, without earning so much as one point."




Lets not flame post for the sake of it.. lets all try and work together to get some common ground to maintain the game we all love to play...

At this point in the game we should not think of each other as AZGD , MoC ,
LSD, Valhalla...etc.. but as ZE players trying to develop and keep this game going...

.... if all moons become poppable..., there is no need for ruby moons...
any moon will do...
there needs to be some increased safety in ruby moons.. with certain sizes being un poppable..,
well for now...,

another good thing will be to extend under the protection rule.., under 100K points.. the inactivity penalty period..
some ppl take a while to get into the game...
so they need more leeway there or they will get crashed early when they slowly get into the game cause of inactivity..
I have found many fleets of smaller players cause they were inactive outside the time period...

Personally, I feel like it should be possible to grow and survive in the game, unless you make a mistake... I worry, if all moons became poppable, that this might not be possible, because of how aggressively the game can now be played.

I think new player retention might be the more productive discussion at the current moment. There's been a lot of discussion of that here, but note that Zorg did create a separate thread about retaining new players here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11908

I keep reading this idea that moons should be unpoppable.. WHY...no part of this game should ever be impossible.. As stated we all make mistakes... why most fleets are lost...

The game is about strategy not a easy gift.. The fun is in avoiding being hit.. or working out another players actions.. there is already a huge restriction on the MD mission.. max allowed is 4 MD's per player per 24hrs ..yet it is so easy to gain 21 moon's in less than 2 hrs.. without rubies.

All it seems is players want total protection...This is not the idea of the game.. the game is based on War, conflict and battles. Have you not thought that maybe one day each and everyone of you could be the top fleeter... How will this happen if you keep trying to make it harder and harder (or in some cases impossible to catch a fleet )..

Many players have lost their fleets despite having a 9.9+k moon..because they became predictable.. The idea that you have to move you fleet around not stay in one place avoid your enemy is long established... Yet the concept now is give me a moon that I can constantly use without fear knowing I will always be safe...if only life was the same for everyone..

Keep the fun in the game... I can assure you once you learn all the extras out there the game becomes even more fun... The satisfaction on doing a planned MD to discover a fleet is fantastic... let alone a half blind phalanx hit... carry on trying to change the game and none of you will experience this aspect of the game... you are in fact robbing yourselves...

For the longest time I wanted to believe this, Gozar. But I have seen how aggressively you and AZGD are able to play; I have seen numerous players who thought they were fleetsaving carefully and safely crash because they were caught on lanx, and I have come to the conclusion that it is simply not possible to fleet save safely without using a moon that is "unpoppable" once someone becomes your target... Maybe this is merely a testament to how well you play... I cannot say, I was not here when the game was otherwise. I will say it again: I think it should be possible to survive and avoid crashing in the game unless you slip up.

As you said, "unpoppable" moons do not provide complete safety... You have crashed players who use moons that you cannot touch countless times... You still have the advantage, and likely always will. This post was supposed to be about presenting ideas that would allow players like me to take on players like you, if I understand correctly.

Believe it or not, I do understand where you are coming from... Yet it is possible to retain your fleet if you play the game correctly.. as many players have done.. There are many players ( not just those in AZGD ) that have avoided being hit because they play well...

The issue of making a slip up, is more of RL than anything else.. ( RL being a situation that prevents you logging in...the most common is loss of internet.) of course this has become less and less with the modern day mobile connections now available to most players. ( this is simply progression of technology.. sadly not as available at the start of this game which is a testimony to of some of the existing top players)

For the sake of this discussion we adopt the game play you wish for... Sadly you lose your internet and your fleet is crushed (does not matter who by) would this mean you quit the game.. ( I hope not).. The point I am trying to make is you are then asking to remove an original part of the game... Thus making it harder for yourself and others to grow.. The fastest and without doubt the best way to grow is by crashing fleets... I can assure you adopting your plan will then take you much much longer to grow...

The predictability is many players will quit or retire well before they have a big fleet.. or if they slip up and are crushed they leave anyway... I used to raid the same as they rest of the players and do better than most...the loss of the large farms effects all but in no way does it prevent development... in fact should encourage more attacks on active players along with renewed strategies..

Personally I could sit back and wait for the mistakes of others and still keep in front....but how boring are you wanting to make this game.. Loggin do a few minor raids.. maybe build a few ships, farm your planets and chat awhile with a few allies ( the later not so boring) but how long before this becomes tedious.. and you lose interest in the game... sure for awhile it will be ok... but the bigger you become the harder it will be for you to build as the cost of each level becomes more and more expensive and you have then made it harder and harder to gain those valuable resources.

try and think long term not just now or the next 6 months.. what ever you wish for could come back and bite you...but by then the damage has been done to the game and long term prospects.. I would say if it is not broken, don't try and fix it..