This is a topic both, fleeters and turtles will agree with.

I will start with this :

TheDude wrote:I think the new battle engine creates an imbalance. For example another player moonshot me with 46 battleships and I lost 1.2k rocket launchers out of 2.1k. Mind you I had 64k LL on that planet 350 ion cannon etc. Attacker recycles DF but at the end of the battle I have lost 720k metal (with far far superior defenses). Take another example attacker sends 1 rip at my planet (with the same defenses) and loses the rip but recycles it but I lose 34k LL (due to rips high RF) 70% regenerate so I lose 10200 LL's which is massive that's 7.6mil iron and 2.5mil crystal etc. The defenses were far far superior yet the loss was big. (2 rips would have cleaned me out). This makes defenses useless in my opinion. This also points out another flaw. Make one unit and lots of it because shields add up otherwise your stretching yourself thin over many different units and your losses will be big.

and this:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7625

I also did a sim on my own the other day and PMd Zorg about it so he told me to make a topic about it:

8.000 BCs against only 2 RIPs, (maybe I should add that before 8k BCs could beat around 10 RIPs with no losses) and imagine my surprise when i got this result.

The attacker has lost a total of 29.120.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 15.000.000 units.
A debris field containing 13.488.000 units of Metal and 12.984.000 units of Crystal has formed in orbit around the planet.
The probability of creating a moon is : 19 %

416 Bcs died. There is still a 60-70% chance for no loss, but no one wants to gamble with risks this high, so you could say this messed things up for almost all fleeters that don't use RIPs.
This makes people to chose either to build RIPs only or only LGs because any other ship is now inefficient.

I know how Zorg hates when people say RIPs need changing, but recent battle engine update brought a lot of changes. It is true that LGs are now a lot more efficient against RIPs (as Zorg said himself, they may need wimping), but they are now more vulnerable against Destroyers, BCs, LFs and Plasma Cannons. The thing is that eventhough RIPs are now more vulnerable against LGs, they became even stronger against every other Ship and Defense they have RF against.

I suggest lowering RIPs RF against everything by 25-35% OR lower their wsa by 25-35%. They will still be strong, but not this strong. Surely LGs will then need wimping too, but I think this is something of high importance.

If you have a suggestion, feel free to write it down, but keep in mind that they can't change the cost of any ship because it would mess up the rankings. Also, this is a serious problem for both, turtles and fleeters, so making only one ship or one type of defense won't change much...the fact is, RIPs really need wimping.

yeah
i also agree with u ...
with this new version .. only LG can wipe out RIPS

the number bc to defeat rips in old version .. cant be use anymore in new version

I disagree, I don't think its that rips need wimping down as BC need beefed up. Lets face it, the new battle engine basically made BC worthless against even defenses.

I can tell you from experience that rips against defenses are no where near as strong as they used to be. I launched on a defense that would have needed 100 rips before to take down, now it needed 300 rips to 0 loss it.

Yeah, but the point of that last battle engine update was to affect RIPs. Maybe they are now less effective against defense, but they are a lot more effective against fleet. It is not just about BCs, but every other ship RIPs have RF against (so basically, everything except LGs).

Well, this thread is opened for suggestions, but the fact is, something should change. Maybe lowering RIPs RF against ships only if they are already less effective against defenses. And then make LGs a bit weaker too to make a balance.
If it stays this way, there is nothing else for fleeters to build except RIPs and LGs.

I would also like to add that the implementation of this suggestion
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3977
made it easier for turtles only, and not for fleeters. Why? Because RIPs have no RF against PCs so turtles can build them, but no one will start building bombers because few RIPs can wipe out thousands of Bombers.
That whole thread was based on the fact that RIPs were too strong, which apparently changed now when RIPs are used for defense bashing, however, RIPs became even more powerful against ships.

Rjsturgill wrote:...rips against defenses are no where near as strong as they used to be. I launched on a defense that would have needed 100 rips before to take down, now it needed 300 rips to 0 loss it.

According to sims I did with the old simulator vs. new simulator, RIPs appear to be more powerful vs LLs, which are the best defensive structure. If you do not find this to be the actual case, then the simulator must be way off.

I do not know if this was your design or not but the new battle engine is ridiculously way out in my opinion. Numbers for you to check. Old version. 750 BC take out 1 Rip of equal techs. with no loss. New BE I now need 5000 BC to take out ONE rip with no loss..surely this is not correct. I simmed these numbers over 130 times in some cases I even lost a few ships sending 5k BC what has happened. Either BC have become weaker or rips have become far to strong again.. I now find my BC are almost useless for raids. All I ask is why have you change a BE that worked for this version that is now become so one sided. Sim your self please explain to me why is there such a big change...? In my opinion you have now made the game so much harder for all new players to develop any worth while fleet.. Or is it your desire to have just Miners.. Because without fleets there would be no need for turtles either..I can not speak to much about defences because if it don't fly and shoot I don't build much of it..lol

SpacemanSpiff wrote:

Rjsturgill wrote:...rips against defenses are no where near as strong as they used to be. I launched on a defense that would have needed 100 rips before to take down, now it needed 300 rips to 0 loss it.

According to sims I did with the old simulator vs. new simulator, RIPs appear to be more powerful vs LLs, which are the best defensive structure. If you do not find this to be the actual case, then the simulator must be way off.

That is because LL have been tweaked, they are weaker now. The plasma cannon is truly the best defense against rips going that route.

im leaning towards agreeing with both rob and The...Rips need to be beefed down and BC's need to be beefed up...

If you make BC's stronger you need to make battleships stronger too. While we are at it destroyers should be tweaked too since it is pretty much a useless unit ATM with its slow speed and extra high duet cost. Destroyers are currently not a viable unit at all for anything in large numbers since it just costs to much to run and is too slow.

I think rips should be toned down and maybe made faster too. Some sort of balance.

The biggest change appears to be shielding..this was the main strength of BC and now they have lost this ability they are virtually useless. It is not about making ships weaker its about a balance. However this change has done just that unbalanced most ships and defence. The old BE worked well and was well balanced, tho there was a slight imbalance to defence. A simple remedy would have been just to increase these units. NOT change all defence and ships in such away as has been.

There has been many comments posted.. Yet so far NO response or information from ZE please can we the customer/end user, be informed of any developments on this issue..what if anything is being done..?