ZE was once the best fleeting server out there (before the v1.1 BE). Whether it's troops, ships or tanks, ZE was the best place for aggressive players who love to play on the edge.
I'm sure the feeding frenzy (high speed and high DF return) was the main reason.

If you ask me, it is alright if the ships are unbalance as long as there is a work around for it. Mono-BS or mono-BC it does not matter if they are unbalance because every player will just lean towards it and it would somehow balance it out to a point.
With the new BE, the only work around is to use RIPs too. But RIPs are too slow. Ask any good fleeter why a RIP is good. They will always end with "...but they are too slow."

With the previous BE, you get high profit ratio considering the ships you sent. You don't need a big difference in fleet to crash someone. There were players of almost equal rank competing and trying to eat each other. With the new BE, you would need around 10x points difference to actually earn a substantial profit. Not more than that and you would prolly just destroy each others ships without anyone profiting. Add a bunch of defense and you are totally screwed.

So there it is, you take away the speed and the high profit and you end up with a generic game with **** graphics.

I was always proud to say "I am from ZE." if people start to talk about browser games. I don't feel the pride right now.

This is funny, but seems like you don't have much experience in this game Zorg.
If you want your losses to be minimal, you should send a lot of same type ships because if you combine several ship types usually one or several ship types gets wiped out. Just for the info, I am not against mixing fleets, but because of the RIPs, only a mad man would do it.
For example, if you're attacking a person who has some defenses and some RIPs, you would think you should use Bombers to destroy the defense and LGs to destroy RIPs, but you end up losing all your bombers cause of the insane RF RIPs have against them.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you use to say that LGs are supposed to be a defensive ship, and not an attacking one. Yet now you are suggesting something else.

I knew that you would eventually use LGs as an excuse for RIPs strength. That is way I wasn't fond of the idea of creating LGs in the first place, but making RIPs weaker even then.


Why don't you start a poll and see what the majority wants?

EDIT: Well said neo

i can only say only rips and lg are usefull now
the other are useless ... just become fodder

I see what Zorg is saying. That no longer is one ship dominant that we now should build fleets of many different ships based on what the opponent has and what we want to destroy.

Only time will tell if this will work. I think people should give the new engine a chance I have already found some new tactics but lets say that RIPS aren't as strong as they used be and not as strong as people think.

Here's an example of how we can combine our fleets to get better results as Zorg said.

200 bombers beat 1k LLs with no losses and 200 LGs beat 2 RIPs, but when it is logically combined, you can see a rather disturbing outcome.

200 bombers and 200 LGs against 1000 LLs and 2 RIPs
The attacker has lost a total of 18.480.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 16.000.000 units.

All bombers died, along with about 30 LGs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is your plan on how to stimulate players to use more bombers right?

The wrote:Here's an example of how we can combine our fleets to get better results as Zorg said.

200 bombers beat 1k LLs with no losses and 200 LGs beat 2 RIPs, but when it is logically combined, you can see a rather disturbing outcome.

200 bombers and 200 LGs against 1000 LLs and 2 RIPs
The attacker has lost a total of 18.480.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 16.000.000 units.

All bombers died, along with about 30 LGs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is your plan on how to stimulate players to use more bombers right?

@The
I am starting to believe you have no idea how battle and more specifically RF works. Your example proves this and I will explain why:

1)RIPs have Rapid Fire of 15 against Bombers
2)LGs have Rapid Fire of 8 against RIP
3)Bombers have Rapid Fire of 20 against LL

Analyzing your example:
a)200 bombers against LLs
Bombers thanks to their RF, can beat many thousands of LL alone, let's accept the 1k without no loss. So the outcome is more than normal.

b)LGs against RIPs
LGs will again win the 2 rips, but will leave behind about 10m as losses.

c)
200 LGS + 200 Bombers against 2 RIPS and 1000LL

Round starts:
RIPS have 1 and ony target to RF against; BOMBER
And they got a big RF rating against them, therefore, they will wftpwn them, even if the bombers were 1000. You don't even need the LLs to realize this. Just make a sim of 200 LGs and 1000 bombers against 2 rips; bombers will not survive. This will result in high loss for the attacker. With 200 bombers, it is about +10m, with 1000, It would be about +30m.

Bombers shield + armor provide cover for the LG at the RIP first shot, this is why LGs end up with few losses.
LLs will suffer from Bombers high RF against them; even if you add more LLs, the outcome should be about the same.

I do not exactly understand why you posted this example and I do not think it helps the discussion. At least, I hope that my explanation helps you and other people understand how battle works. For more info, check these 3 topics:
How Rapid Fire works
How to use the simulator
Battle Engine explained

Yes I do know how RF works. But you are the one who keeps saying use LGs against RIPs, and something else that will beat the defense. I gave you an example for what you suggested and as you can see because of the RIPs crazy RF all bombers got destroyed.

One can get better results by sending 400 LGs alone, which brings us to the main problem here. Either build tons of LGs or tons of RIPs.

You guys gave us LGs to make RIPs weaker instead of wimping RIPs in the first place. That brought a lot of unbalance and it became even worse when you fixed the battle engine and that is what we all are talking about.

Now even 10K BCs cant beat only 2 RIPs alone, and we all know they never come alone.

The attacker has lost a total of 27.020.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 15.000.000 units.


EDIT: P.S. here's another one complaining viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7679

@The
I won't argue with you. Go ahead in building whatever ship you think is best, just do not pose it out like there is only one way and like everyone agrees with it; there is not only one way and not everyone agrees with it.

@The: This is simulation with no WSA.
4000 destroyers vs 2 rips ...
rips attacks 5 times(which is maximal) in round 1, and you lose only 10 destroyers ...

3000 destroyers vs 2 rips (rips attacks 5 times in round 1)
Result: 40 destroyers lost.

2000 destroyers vs 2 rips (again 5 times RF sucess)
Result: 86 destroyers lost.

1000 destroyers vs 2 rips (5 again)
Result:

The attacker has lost a total of 15.620.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 15.000.000 units.

Now attacker loses more than defender.
Note: If defender attacks 1 time, attacker lost is ZERO.

Considering that The?

Note: 10k BC is equal to 6300+ destroyers, i used less in simulation and that is the result ...

Why do you think I want to argue with you Zorg. This is a Game suggestion thread and people should share their thoughts about a certain topic, and what I said before is what I think is best. Everyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

You say I shouldn't say there's just one way, but I did prove it through examples. One ship type (LGs or RIPs) is the only way now. Everything else can be considered as fodder.

And you say not everyone agrees with me, yet Gozar, Destruction, Fishpond, O_o, joshanddrew, SpacemanSpiff, jewlobster, neo, and even the guy in chat yesterday who I think was TheDude (sorry if I forgot someone) agree that something has to change because the current situation is very bad.

and @ hardstylex:
It is true destroyers are now better to use against RIPs than BCs, but it is still way worse than before.
Do you really think someone should send 4k destroyers to kill 2 RIPs with 0 losses? 4k dessies are 27 times more expensive.
And you did a same mistake Zorg *partially edited by Zorg* - 1 warning -, but the thing is no one leaves RIPs with no ships or defense with them.
Make a sim 4k Destroyers against those same 2 RIPs, but with only 1k LLs defending the RIPs.

The attacker has lost a total of 19.580.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 16.000.000 units.

Since you can't send bombers to wipe out the LLs because they will just die like flies, you now have to send a lot more destroyers.

Not even 6k dessies guarantees you a profitable victory

The attacker has lost a total of 7.700.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 16.000.000 units.

And to be honest, there are very few people who have only 2 RIPs and only 1k LLs.