I'm gonna have to say no to that one, Comet...2k attack points and 1.250 Shields? For the equivalent of over 4 mil metal? Yeah...No.

If you're wanting a small, cheap ship, let me try running this by everyone...

Name: Lunar Guardian

Image Description
Over the years, crafty emperors of Zorg Universe, looked for ways to defend colonies and lunar bases against the massive firepower of Death Stars and their graviton cannons. Eventually they realized that they could harness and reflect the energy from these cannons. The result was a brand new ship which was named as Lunar Guardian to reflect the purpose it was first created.

As the technological advancements in shield technology increase through the Universe, durable shields were made cheaper and cheaper as the years went on. Small, cheap ships were now able to be outfitted with more powerful shielding. Thus, the Lunar Guardian was created. This small lightweight ship boasted relatively quick speeds, but also sported stronger shielding than the other light ships. Coupled with the ability to deflect Gravitons back at it's attacker, these ships quickly became the go-to ship for countering the once all-powerful Death Stars.

Specifications:

Production Base Speed: Double than RIP - Reduced 10% per Physics Tech lvl
Structure Points: 50.000
Shield Strength: 1.500
Attack Points: 700
Cargo Capacity:
Base Speed: 3.000
Fuel: 3.000

Production Cost
Metal: 30.000
Crystal: 20.000
Deuterium: 10.000



Rapid Fire Values:
Rapid-Fire Against Death Star: 5
Rapid Fire Against Espionage Ship 5
Rapid Fire Against Solar Satellite 5


Rapid-Fire From Light Fighter: 10
Rapid-Fire From Destroyer: 5


Requirements:
Zorg Physics Technology Level 4
Graviton Technology Level 2
Hyperspace Technology LvL 9
Hyperspace Engine LvL 10
Level 15 shipyard

Ok, so this is just a quick one...It has about half the Structure Points of the Destroyer, yet it boasts 3 times the shields with firepower rivaling that of the BattleCruiser. Add in the 5 RF to RIPs (Maybe lower? I'm not sure how much of an effect that will have. 3, perhaps?). It's still relatively cheap, but I don't think it's going to be some all-powerful ship, since a couple LFs SHOULD dominate it and they are considerably cheaper.

Like I said, this is if we're going the small, cheap ships en-masse route. If not, then this is totally useless. And really, if I'm not mistaken, it would still take a few thousand of these to take out a RIP...So, it might even be underpowered.

Yeah I think it needs to have a big structure in order to survive fire from a RIP, so I don't know how we are gonna get a small one to work without being too strong.

Shields? And then have a (somewhat) massive RF from the small, cheap ships like LF.

That's what I tried doing since you can pass the price off as just being technological advancements, lol.

Ok so...According to some rough math...Just to get a 50% chance of destroying a single RIP in the first round...You'd need (Assuming it gave the maximum of 5 shots per round) 1085 of these ships.

1085 ships have a total of 1.627.500 Shield points, which is more than the RIP can dish out, since there is no RF. 1085 of these also cost 32.550.000 Metal, 21.700.000 Crystal, and 10.850.000 Deuterium. Which is quite a bit, just to have a 50-50 chance of destroying a RIP, if you ask me.

I think the way to keep these from being OP is to keep the Attack low (Below 1k) and just alter the RF against the RIPs accordingly. The shielding, to me, needs to be lowered from my original 1.5k to 1k, since it seems 1.5 is quite a bit for that price.

If you increased RF against RIPs to 10 and decreased shields to 1k:

542 ships needed for a 50-50 first round KO on a single RIP. 542=542.000 Shielding (Slightly over half of the RIP's attack). Costs 16.260.000 Metal, 10.840.000 Crystal, and 5.420.000 Deuterium.

To me, that seems right. This is, of course, suggesting a perfect simulation where both sides fire for their absolute maximum, which will most likely not happen.

Likewise, if you sent one of these ships against LF you'd need...

52 LF. 52 LF= 78k Metal/Crystal.

Yeah. Pretty easy. I think it might need to be dropped even lower, to like a 4 or 5 o.O

So, new specs...

Specifications:

Production Base Speed: Double than RIP - Reduced 10% per Physics Tech lvl
Structure Points: 50.000
Shield Strength: 1000
Attack Points: 700
Cargo Capacity:
Base Speed: 3.000
Fuel: 3.000

Rapid Fire Values:
Rapid-Fire Against Death Star: 10
Rapid Fire Against Espionage Ship 5
Rapid Fire Against Solar Satellite 5


Rapid-Fire From Light Fighter: 5
Rapid-Fire From Destroyer: 5

Thoughts?

I was thinking that for this structure to serve its purpose realistically it should be a defensive unit also Ace, but here is where we are at.

It sounds like a lot of people are liking the idea that it was advanced research in technology with the harnessing and reflection of the death stars graviton cannons. I think this serves its prupose as a death star killer, but has virtually no use against other ships (as no other ship uses graviton technology).
Since the consensus likes the small ship idea, I think the picture that has been provided is a great concept. It is small and sleek (looks like it would be very fast). And the design with the wings actually coming out in front of the ship makes it look realistically possible that it could trap and reflect energy between the tips. This is the only design and description that I can think of that would allow a small ship to defeat a much larger ship (like a death star), without having the name Skywalker associated with it.
I like the costs that Urweirdsaysi was suggesting, but I think based on those overall costs a higher percentage should be placed into the crystal and deut. And since it is a small ship with low to no pure firepower, it would not need much metal to manufacture.
Since it is small, we need to consider its cargo capacity. It will be fast and cost a lot to transport, but depending on its cargo hold (based on its size), will not be able to travel long distances.

I do agree with this rf

rapid fire

against solar sat 5
against espionage ship 5
against death star 2
from light fighter 2
from heavy fighter 2
from cruiser 2
from battlecruiser 5
from destroyer 10

Wait, so if im reading this right... for 16.260.000 Metal, 10.840.000 Crystal, and 5.420.000 Deuterium. I can build ONE of these ships... and it takes over 500 of them to take out one RIP???

so that is 542 MILLON CRYSTAL, and 271 MILLION Deut and allmost 9 BILLION Metal?

To kill a Rip that cost Mil Metal 2.5 mill crystal and 1.5 mil deut??? WTF? Damm shure I can build a fleet of BS that will do the same thing for half the cost. Hell for that cost I can build a fleet of LF that would probably scare Gummpy.

Hell that will build soemwhere around three million Plasma Cannons. And that is a Scary *** Turtle.

[edit] ignore the above and I see that the cost IS for 500 of them. My bad

be nice if they had some sort of nominal cloak vs ESP.

Fairly sure you read that wrong.

Just suggseting another ship picture (something small you need ?)

hmm, weird, i think you have the bets overall specs up to now, but there are a few things i think should change

1 - zorg said it has to be strong vs deathstars and weak vs everything else, so you cant include that rapid fire AGAINST heavy fighters, would defeat its purpose.

2 - you only have it taking rapid fire from 2 other vessels, it needs to take rapid fire from more than that or its high shielding will make it great for raiding other targets except death stars, which is not what it is meant for. i think the rapid fire table in myrsee's post is more suitable, maybe a couple extra against the death star.

3 - high shielding is associated with high crystal cost in all cases, in this case it is not, so with that in mind here is my suggestion at a more accurate cost table:

metal: 15.000
crystal: 35.000
deuterium: 4.000

this still leaves structure at 50.000 but has high crytal ratio to reflect the shielding values... i also changed the deuterium to 4k instead of 10k, because, honestly, its fuel consumption is more than enough to justify 4k build cost... if it cost me 10 million deuterium just to build 1k of these little things and they are only useful against death stars? i wouldnt build them at all, id stick with my battleships, im sure a lot of other people would too.

4 - i think cargo cap should be about 6k, that would let it carry enough fuel for two full loads, which is about a sensible raiding distance i think.

I never included RF against HF, lol. However, I do agree with it maybe needing RF from more ships. It was just that a simple 50 LF would dominate it and since that is a universal ship, I figured it was the best way (I'm also trying to make LF useful...).

I like the new Cost table, it seems like it would work fairly well. At the CURRENT Speed/Fuel specs, it costs exactly 20k Deut to travel one Galaxy over. Therefore, I think a 20k Cargo would be suitable. This requires the use of LC or other ships to carry it's fuel for MOST trips, but you can still just send these in an in-system attack. Also, while it puts more emphasis on Crystal, it actually ends up being a little bit cheaper than my costs and the Deuterium won't murder you in your sleep.

I also LOVE the image because, as mysree pointed out, it looks the part.

However, your RF, mysree, is good, except a RF of 2 against the RIP with the current weapon specs would mean you'd have to build THOUSANDS, which would be completely uneconomical and pointless. Also, I don't believe it should take RF from Dessies, simply because this would keep other ships from being used.

How about this:
*NOTE: This is assuming the previous Attack/Shield specs posted will be used.*

Rapid Fire Values:
Against Solar Sat: 5
Against Espionage Ship: 5
Against Death Star: 10

From Light Fighter: 10
From Heavy Fighter: 3
From Cruiser: 3

This above table SHOULD allow them to destroy RIPs fairly easily (Assuming you send enough), but the RF taken from the three weak ships will ensure that a few hundred of either would take them out.

These will be used to counter RIPs. LF/HF will be used to counter the Lunar Guardians. Cruisers will be used to counter LFs. BattleCruisers will be used to counter Cruisers(And Heavy Fighters). And Destroyers will be used to counter BattleCruisers. BAM. We just balanced out the entire fleet composition. Every ship now has a purpose and is useful in combat. Battleships will still be used as the go-to raiding ship, since it is still going to be the "backbone." Major attacks involving RIPs will now have to include counters to the Lunar Guardian, which would make the Defender have to counter those ships, except in the cases of complete and total domination from sheer numbers.

sorry weird, i meant comet, he included rapid fire to heavies in his post..

i still think that you should include rapid fire from a couple more ships against the lunar guardian, with that table, they could still be used to raid a target with a bunch of cargo and battlecruisers, since battlecruisers have pesky high shields, you could send these in place of your normal fleet, also, against a fleet of destroyers, with enough of these, would make them a great substitute for sending a ton of battleships, which makes them good for something other than countering death stars, which is a no-no

also, i know its a bit unheard of, but we should consider giving a defensive unit rapid fire over the lunar guardian. looking at the shielding on the ship it could easily start being used as a turtle basher with great effect... i think a sensible choice would be to give the plasma cannon a low rapid fire against the lunar guardian, maybe 2 or 3, that will be enough to deter most people, i chose the plasma because it already has a high attack power, coupled with rapid fire would put people off using this ship as a turtle basher... also because the plasma is kinda overpriced as it is so a bit of rapid fire would make it worth building more..