"Plasma Cannon - 541,709"

This simply means a large amount of people have build these cannons without the knowlegde they are weaker in structure/shielding/attack dmg compared to all other defences. (including meh )

I will never again build these, only 1 per planet.

- since 1 can trow off the RF from the others
- since 1 never gets destroyed by the 70% rule. since it seems that 1*0.7=1 in zorg.
(i know this since i raid 1 of all def planets 2x every day for 3 months in row now never destroyed 1 defence structure.)

and whats so bad from upgrading the other defences a bit to make them worthwile to build?, right now you could simply remove them from the game as they appear to have no real function.

Ions=shields
LL= Dmg +(2nd best shielding)
RL=lots of structure points.
the rest is sorta a waste of resources.
anyway way more info here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3941

dexternl wrote:

"Plasma Cannon - 541,709"

This simply means a large amount of people have build these cannons without the knowlegde they are weaker in structure/shielding/attack dmg compared to all other defences. (including meh )

I will never again build these, only 1 per planet.

- since 1 can trow off the RF from the others
- since 1 never gets destroyed by the 70% rule. since it seems that 1*0.7=1 in zorg.
(i know this since i raid 1 of all def planets 2x every day for 3 months in row now never destroyed 1 defence structure.)

and whats so bad from upgrading the other defences a bit to make them worthwile to build?, right now you could simply remove them from the game as they appear to have no real function.

Ions=shields
LL= Dmg +(2nd best shielding)
RL=lots of structure points.
the rest is sorta a waste of resources.
anyway way more info here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3941

maybe adding a bit of uniqueness to each, but not so much about power, in that state of mind it sounds like you want all the defenses to the same strength, there is always going to be a best and worst

well you could give them all some use.
don't know if RF would be usefull like gumppy proposed.

but for example if you would only increase the firepower of the plasma's that would still mean the structure pnts and shielding will be lower than mass building LL at the same cost.

The only advantage as i said before it when having only a few defences on a planet, then the plasma is less likely to be destroyed due to high structure pnts per unit.
But since everyone in the game has big enough fleets so you need bigger defences and this advantage just disappears.

I would say make it like this
RL= like it is now good/cheap Structure ratio for receaving the blow that ges past shields. (jet bit unwise tactic mostly)
LL = well reducing its strengt people will be unhappy (but dmg is bit insane to be honest, Like shandris said in other games the metal and crystal cost of these are more expensive. Here its lowered meaning less structure pnts, but it increases the dmg/cost ratio ALOT! LL do 5x more dmg than RIPS/cost ratio).
HL = less fire power then LL but a little higher shielding(also has little more structure points already).
ions=keep as is shield buff.
gaus = struct and shield bit better then pc but less dmg?
pc = least structe(already is), least shield(already is), most dmg
All above is when poducing x defences at same cost not per single unit

RL should always be used as structure point fodder, due to it's low cost:structure ratio. They are fine.

LL should be better than PC en masse, but should cost MORE for the same effect. Their advantage should be sheer number, a simple cost increase would do this.

PC should be the most powerful for cost:attack ratio, for obvious reasons. Prices should be lowered.

Ions should be the best at shield:cost ratio. They are fine.

HL and Gauss should be the midpoints. Not the best, but good for their cost. HL focusing more on shields with Gauss focusing more on attack. HL and Gauss need either a cost modification or edit the stats a bit.

The solution would literally take 3 minutes to enact.

great i modded my post before u posted....

LL should be better than PC en masse, but should cost MORE for the same effect. Their advantage should be sheer number, a simple cost increase would do this.

well increasing the cost will boost players that already have LL, they should just reduce the attack dmg a little to compensate this. its about the same as increasing cost. but people dont get advantage of having build xmil before they get impoved due to cost=structure pnts

True, editing the attacks strength would be better.

This is the CURRENT Cost:Stat ratio for HL and Gauss, using a 3:2:1 Resource conversion ratio:

Heavy Laser:
Shield Strength: 76
Attack Points: 30

Gauss Cannon:
Shield Strength: 225
Attack Points: 41

Basically, give Gauss the Second best attack, but second worst shield, and flip that for HL.

Attack Chain:
PC
Gauss
LL
RL
HL
Ions

Shield Chain:
Ions
HL
LL
RL
Gauss
PC

Bam. Problem solved. LL/RL will then be the "Middle-men" with Ions and PC being the "Power-houses" in their category. Both will be required to have a "Good" defense, since both lack the opposite stats. LL will then be the Jack of All Trades. Do I get an award for being this awesome?

Please note that this is all based on RATIOS. Ratios are the key to getting balance, not individual stats.

EDIT: This also falls in line almost perfectly with the order these will be unlocked by players, unless they just research weird techs. Ions/Pc are the last to be unlocked and are the top of their respective classes. RL/LL are first, and are the "rounded out" Defense.

For future reference, the CURRENT Cost:Stat Ratios for all Defense (Rounded to the nearest whole number):

Rocket Launcher:
Structure Points: 1
Shield Strength: 125
Attack Points: 31

Light Laser:
Structure Points: 1
Shield Strength: 51
Attack Points: 13

Heavy Laser:
Structure Points: 1
Shield Strength: 76
Attack Points: 30

Gauss Cannon:
Structure Points: 2
Shield Strength: 225
Attack Points: 41

Ion Cannon:
Structure Points: 1
Shield Strength: 20
Attack Points: 67

Plasma Cannon:
Structure Points: 2
Shield Strength: 667
Attack Points: 67

Structure points are fairly inaccurate, sorry.

yes that's what I sort of meant all defences should be roughly the same value per cost.
But variance in damage and shielding. then people can just chooce what they prefer. to build.
lots of LL or balance out with ions and pc's or any or the middle guns in between.

That was one of the reasons i calculated all current stats of the defences in the help section. As it makes no sence atm.

So only shielding and dmg should be altered.
Since we cannot change the cost of defences, else we are reducing or improving existing people in the game that have already build them.

(I still would love to have the laser/plasma/ion techs involved in this improving somehow)

To calculate shield/damage balance you need to have this info:
Total cost compare
PC = 1
GAUS = 4,4
IONS= 20
HL = 26,5
LL = 156,9
RL = 90

Deut cost Compare (Deut should improve shield/dmg stats since its not taken into structure points)
PC = 25.000
GAUS = 11.000
IONS= 0
HL = 2.650
LL = 7.845
RL = 0

- Also RF values plays a role.
- The defences should be balanced to ships (but think about movability, no DF generation and 10% higher return, ect...)

Maby I'll post some suggestion on how to change stuff, but don't have the time to calculate it all right now.....

It would be good if every one of you could summarize their suggestions.
Also I hope you are testing them on simulator eh ?

A simple boost to Plasma cannon would be to either slightly reduce deuterium cost OR slightly increase Rapid Fire against RIP

I would be in for a small increase in shields too, but only limited and sure lower than Ion Cannon as if you exclude the shield rating for ion cannon (500 vs 300 for pc) and RF ratings, they are the same structures it seems.

We could always make PC dependable on Plasma Technology and this would be perhaps the best idea. Conduct a table with current plasma costs and add bonuses for each level. (Perhaps to RF but also to power and shield at higher levels).

well you have to take in account that you can build 20 ions for the price of 1 PC so its more of comparing 10.000 shield vs 300 shield.
(the crystal alone is already 10x more expensive)
ion= 2.500metal 5.000crys
pc = 50.000metal 50.000crys 25.000deut

so even if a PC had 3.000 shield an ion would still be more cost effective then ions for shielding purpose.
but I rather see some more dmg then shielding on pc's since it has the weakest damage then any other defence you can build for the same price.
If plasma would remain the lowest shield/structure defence but have good dmg. That would force people to build ions and other defences as well to protect them. (Wich was the original idea i think of this game).

Plasma guns are one of the last defences you will unlock by research usally therefore they should have some use.

in the weekend i might have some time to give some good idea's in worked out numbers.

Thank you so much for finally wanting to help out the turtles I was beginning to think Zorg had forsaken me. lol
well anyway what I was thinking is maybe defenses get a little power boost for mass building like a little extra fire power for every...
1000 RL
1000 LL
750 HL
250 GC
250 IC
100 PC

idk this might just be stupid but I figured I would throw my two cents in this mess