gumppy wrote:

Urweirdsaysi wrote:The simple fact is that LL are, bar-none, THE most powerful item in the game. PC and Gauss are some of the worst items.

All that needs to happen is LL need to be nerfed (slightly) and Pc/Gauss need to get some boosts, preferably just in the stats. RF won't really help much, I don't think.

i'm pretty p!ssed you didn't pass that joint my way weird. Only a hand full of people get to see the impact i see when dealing with turtle defenses. Currently RiP raiding is the rave..it is pretty much launch and forget it.

Just gonna go out on a limb and take that to mean you say I'm wrong...

For the same cost as a RIP, you get a little over 10k LL(Unless my memory is failing). 10k LL beats 1 RIP 10/10 times with no loss, if I'm not mistaken.

Sure, if you add in other ships and whatnot, LL might not survive, I don't know. But I'm talking about nothing but RIP raiding, which seems to be what you're discussing.

So, unless your RIPs are extremely more powerful than the ones in the battle simulator...LL are the most powerful item in the game. Show me an example of RIPs winning a 10.000:1 disadvantage and I'll eat my words.

Urweirdsaysi wrote:

gumppy wrote:

Urweirdsaysi wrote:The simple fact is that LL are, bar-none, THE most powerful item in the game. PC and Gauss are some of the worst items.

All that needs to happen is LL need to be nerfed (slightly) and Pc/Gauss need to get some boosts, preferably just in the stats. RF won't really help much, I don't think.

i'm pretty p!ssed you didn't pass that joint my way weird. Only a hand full of people get to see the impact i see when dealing with turtle defenses. Currently RiP raiding is the rave..it is pretty much launch and forget it.

Just gonna go out on a limb and take that to mean you say I'm wrong...

For the same cost as a RIP, you get a little over 10k LL(Unless my memory is failing). 10k LL beats 1 RIP 10/10 times with no loss, if I'm not mistaken.

Sure, if you add in other ships and whatnot, LL might not survive, I don't know. But I'm talking about nothing but RIP raiding, which seems to be what you're discussing.

So, unless your RIPs are extremely more powerful than the ones in the battle simulator...LL are the most powerful item in the game. Show me an example of RIPs winning a 10.000:1 disadvantage and I'll eat my words.

well, split that rip cost between your 21 planets that need defending and you have..476 LL !

RiP wins.

Bouncer wrote:well, split that rip cost between your 21 planets that need defending and you have..476 LL !
RiP wins.

That would be a valid comparison if the RIP could cover 21 planets at the same time. Yes, defenses are immobile. This is why it's ok that LL are tremendously cheaper than BS or BC or RIPS in attack and shields.

The fact of the matter is, if you compare cost of defensive structures, LL by far are the most economical in attack, shield, and armor. If you are interested in adding RF to any defensive structure, it should be LL, as they are overwhelmingly the best buy, and are the easiest to build in nanite restricted moons. Their only problem is the high RF RIPs have against them. Yet again showing that the balance problem lies in the RIP, and any correction made other than directly to the RIP will either further un-balance the game or be in-effective.

ETA: Or, if a new ground defense weapon were designed, i think it should almost cost-competitive to the LL, build in about the same time, but have RF versus the RIP. Key being, the anti-RIP RF enabled defensive weapon should be small, cheap, and rapidly built in order to be effectively built on moons as well as planets. But, of course if you do this, then what's the point of LL anymore? If the intent is to bring the GC and PC back into the game, then I would suggest not only giving them RF against BS or RIPs, but also significantly decreasing their crystal and deut cost.

I think LL need to go up, slightly, in cost and the Gauss/PC either need a slight stat boost (Cost is fine) or need to have RF against certain ships. I'm not really sure on the RF point, though.

I think Defense SHOULD be better than Fleet, simply because you can't move Defense. But the LL take it WAY too far. It is entirely stupid to EVER build anything else, except to distract the RIPs from hitting the LL. Which just isn't right.

rapid fire to upgrade the defences is a good idea the fact they are ground based structures they should realistically have more power and heaver rapid fire than fleets as acess to power and size of the weaponry is not as limited as it would be when confined to a ship .AND yeah LL are good ATM if you have the res to build around 5million of them on each planet then yuor safe from 500 rips but players have near on 1500rips or more so really LL are still just a good way to lose a few million defence points over night.and it will require serious RF for defence to be any use at this stage .just my opinion as disliked as it is LOL

Alfa wrote: so really LL are still just a good way to lose a few million defence points over night.L

only if you have the intelligence of a dead slug and leave stuff behind them..

i agree with what weird said about cost reduction of GC/PC, especially PC, 50m metal 50m crystal and 25m deuty for just 1k? uhm, no?

and again why dont you get the boys to pull out their slugs so your mouth is not so full shandris

Jesus Christ, Alfa, every post you make is just a whine. Quit crying, ****. If the game ***** so much, **** quit. Problem solved. Why play a game you hate?

It's getting really **** annoying reading your dribble.

And now you'll follow up with something regarding me and a cock on my mouth, no? Or maybe you'll think out of the box and choose something smart or clever.

Shandris makes good points so that insult is crap IMO.

as far as LL are so 'strong' and 'ZOMG OVERPOWERED' goes, its a crap-chute. You can't build enough to keep all 21 planets "safe" from anyone in top 20. does anyone even have a porcupine planet ATM that can take on any fleet in ZE? (1k+ rip, 500k+ BS..) according to the highscores...no.

Bouncer wrote:Shandris makes good points so that insult is crap IMO.

as far as LL are so 'strong' and 'ZOMG OVERPOWERED' goes, its a crap-chute. You can't build enough to keep all 21 planets "safe" from anyone in top 20. does anyone even have a porcupine planet ATM that can take on any fleet in ZE? (1k+ rip, 500k+ BS..) according to the highscores...no.

That doesn't mean that the defense isn't unbalanced...You can't build enough RIPs to stop gumppy, so they must be weak, right? I can't build enough mines to keep up with gumppy, so mines must be useless as well, no? See the hole in the logic, there? Gumppy has a huge point gap, comparing his fleet to the defenses and fleet of others is like comparing a mammoth to a weasel.

LL are OP. The math easily shows it. PC, supposed to be the most powerful, is actually one of the weakest items in the game. I'm not sure how else to explain it, since the math has been posted quite a few times throughout the forums.

As for:

You can't build enough to keep all 21 planets "safe" from anyone in top 20.

I'll just answer it with a previous quote.

Shaftoe wrote:That would be a valid comparison if the RIP could cover 21 planets at the same time.