I do have to say ....GIVE ME SOME OF THAT CAKE!

I was saying that the hardcore players will inevitably end up fleeting simply because that is the only part of these games that takes any thought. The people that just log in once every couple days or so (which is most of the player base) are most likely going to turtle simply because it's easy. Those kind of people, myself included, play these games as a distraction.

O game used the rolling ladder of universes to start everyone off on an even playing field. Zorg's limited number of universes means that it becomes exponentially harder for new players to get into fleeting. As it stands for a mid tier player to get into the current 1000+ RIP end game situation you would need to build up 15+ planets with level 30+ mines and then slowly build up RIPs and be constantly fleet saving. That is, in itself, not particularly difficult to do. But as you do that the Gozars and RJSturgills of the world are going to keep rolling.

Back on topic, the dueterium consumption modification is going to make it prohibitively expensive for up-and-comming fleeters to actually try and compete. That change is going to drive more and more people to simply turtle while discouraging the people who can actually afford to build the massive RIP fleets from using them.

The highest level of play in these games is fleeting. If all you want to do is hide in a corner and dig rocks out of the ground play Eve.

I'm just trying to advocate the encouraging of lower and mid tier players to get into fleeting. But the way this game is currently balanced it is hard, and this fuel consumption change is only going to make it harder.

Maybe multiple tiered levels of "noob protection" would help. So that everyone could play in the same universe but the people that have been here since the beginning would only be attacking people of their caliber, and the people that would like to try fleeting wouldn't have to worry about getting hit by 2000 RIPs and losing everything.

Truth is that X-TREME will be a 2 year running universe in late January. Truth is that we have not made any changes to gameplay all this time (save the 99% instead of 100% for moon destroy missions) but we will do one soon; 2 new ships. People are aware of the new ships for a long time now.

Second truth is that the conspiracy theories never was and will never be a reality. We do not check rankings. I personally check them like 2 times a month. We are unaware who is first and who is not, which alliance rules etc. We do this by choice because we want to maintain our neutral stance.

I asked a question that is the primary reason we want to increase rip consumption. What will stop any top fleeter in the future, to have ONLY rips in his fleet ? We do not want to change rip characteristics; we want it to be all powerful. We created an anti-rip ship that is not more powerful than it; Lunar Guardian. Lots of "legends" participated in the construction of this ship. We have spent hours and hours of testing for this ship; we only find one problem and it is not relative with the ship itself but with the rip fuel consumption which we find ridicolous in any attempt to balance it with any other ship.

Think 1 year ahead. If you do not intend to be playing, then be kind and stay out of it. If you do intend to still play, think of how your game will be then. Someone stated in this thread that only this affects only the top fleeters. This is very narrow-minded and non-productive. I do not blame him or anyone; I am just stating our perspective which is not limited as we always look ahead trying to maintain interest on every universe; we do not want to abandon anyone.

What we want to skip is players with only rips in their fleet. The easiest way to do so, is alongside with the Lunar Guardian to slightly raise the rip consumption.

Who does NOT like free rides ? EVERYONE does like them. Understand our perspective:
-We implemented this in SPEED. Rips consumption there is 1500. NOTE: We have NOT ASKED YOU. Do you know why ? Because the universe is new and we can set WHATEVER rules we believe it is better. If you do not like them it is a matter of choice to join or not. For existing universes, the story is different and I already stated why in this thread. Discussion will continue till we find the best solution.

This must be one of the longest posts I ever made...

Zorg this is extreme not speed.

I have played extreme since it's started and seen how it's grown and moved forward.

Rips are built by all because other ships are to far away from them and some cud do with toughening up. The reason rips are built isn't because they r cheap to move around, they are built because they r so powerful.

There r too many effects changing the deut production will have on every aspect of the game. At the moment rips also help lower ur points on a fs. If u raise it fs'ing is just going to get too much and then no one will be able to fs giving power back to the top.

The votes are in majority of keeping it as it is, as a democracy this is how it shud stay. If u want a good future fr Zorg then this is not the path to go down!

i think we should leave it on 1 consumption or make at most 100
bc rips slow and it deserve low consumption

still the majority of the voters thinks that the rip consumption should change to make it more stabilized.

the division among the ppl who wants it changed is on what should be the new consumption, as they all agree that it should be changed. as long as the majority wants it changed if it remains as such we should consider this as a popular demand and settle for another vote that suggests which consumption is best.

again not only fleeters do play in this game. miners and turtles are affected the same way. rips do force them not to build turtle as far as i am concern defense is made to secure some sort of resources. if cost is your concern and you want to use rips for attacks (which is inherently not at all its primal purpose) then use it for same system attacks and note that withing same system rip attacks are possible and at 100% it still costs alot less.

now the point to see which kind of situation a rip attacks does play in?

- a player is offline and leaves his fleet down.
- a players fleet is caught on lanx and u hit him with rips at proper time.

other than the above two only defense bashing comes to mind for rip attacks. now if a player is online defense bashing inherently wont render any profit cause the player will fs resources on board. so the purpose is to bash the defense.

at mines all shut down the base production of any planet is as follows from resource panel.
(hourly)
Metal ----- 400
Crystal ----- 200
Deuterium ----- 100

per hour. normally at 100% the same system adjacent attack takes approximately [Duration 0:52:53] for hit. give or take a few mins.

as i have shown in my first thread that 100 Rips hits a target across galaxy with only 3 deut cost u can be sure that it surely still will make profit from such a defense bash.

now above is just to show u that with that kind of damage done many player as it has been posted in forum for the fun forces players who are unable to commit enough time playing in turtle style are crippled and forced to quit game cause the estimated damage as per each bashing is just not realistic at all. lemme give u a calculation.

100 RIP can bash down the following defense. (considering only Light Lasers and shield domes)

Light Lasers 47.000
After 30% loss the lost defense is 14.100 LLs.

cost of the damage is
Metal ----- 10.575.000
Crystal ----- 3.525.000
Deuterium ----- 705.000

And the total cost on doing a damage of that scale in current game program is no more than 10 deut. please lemme bold it to u that the cost of rip will increase only to deut 11,486 if that consumption is taken to 1000.


only because of this imbalance players (namely few fleeters) would go for that without giving a second thought. Fleeters are supposed to give alot more thoughts before every action they partake but with rips its cost is and was never an issue.

every action in war should have a consequence in cost.

now many players might argue ok rips do cost alot to build then lets try to find what its cost returns in respect to other ships of same cost and preferable of same firepower.

100 RIP
Cost of making
Metal ----- Crystal ----- Deuterium
500,000,000 ----- 250,000,000 ----- 150,000,000

with that much resources an equivalent BC Fleet would be like
less than 10K BC that costs around
Metal ----- Crystal ----- Deuterium
300.000.000 ----- 400.000.000 ----- 150.000.000

please note 10K BC do cost more than 100 RIPs

and to make the same kind of damage it takes around 15K BC to make the same impact. now lets look at the cost on defense bash with BC on the same kind of shell.

the total deut cost to launch at a shell at rip speed is

Deuterium 130.293
and at 100% BC speed
Deuterium 430.715
which is almost 1/4th of what is costing.

I believe the above illustration is enough to see why RIPs are used as such in raiding as i already teremed it as it is a button press to go for free resource or make damage.

and considering the returns that rips make i say they are still a one button press away from free res its alot more like the imperial support.

Actually the votes quite clearly state its for it to stay as it is. those who opted for 300 were just worried that this vote was going to be out weighed by anti fleeters, so its actually around 18 for it to stay and 16 against!

DS do there job and yes they raid an destroy. Good work for noticing the obvious there.

But as i see it the voters are in favour in keeping it at 1! Woohooo this game isnt going downhill after all!

Also can i thank all the voters who are intelligent enough to see that the DS shouldnt change and see exactly the 'RIGHT' reasons why it shouldnt change. If the DS cost more to run, in turn it should be that much quicker and cheaper to build and to change an entire ship is rediculous.

Zorg wrote:We do not want to change rip characteristics; we want it to be all powerful.

As zorg says the ship characteristics wont change and it is not an issue of discussion in this thread. Lets try to focus on what is to be asked off.

TheLegendFishpond wrote:Actually the votes quite clearly state its for it to stay as it is. those who opted for 300 were just worried that this vote was going to be out weighed by anti fleeters, so its actually around 18 for it to stay and 16 against!

do not see how that ^^^ actually says they are supporting the no change cause it clearly says they want it increased to 300.

what i wanted to point out that the majority wants the rip consumption to change. if change it is the favoring mentality of the majority then we should go that way. and is kind of presumptuous to think that we know why they voted for other than the what they voted for.

Well its a voting system, and the majority have indicated that they want it to stay at 1. Always interesting how you try and twist a straight forward vote!.

The ship would have to change if the price ranged because it wouldnt be the same ship. You cant change it without it having an affect on everything else.

Your also not a mod! Stop implying you are by dictating to me to stay on the post, because my only interest is that this stupid change does not take place!

i have not seen a single argument that really supports your case but that everybody that having rip armada are too comfortable with the easy money. where there majority of the in game players are suffering from this, which clearly is not ur concern but we who do like to view and perceive changes impartial to personal favoring styles like to see things done for the entire player pool rather a single group.

i have not used any moderation but suggested. as per moderators what to do and what not to do they know it better. i am not into mod baiting or asking for troubles just placing my arguments with proofs and enough calculations that shows the clear picture to the community.. if its not broken why change it? if its obsolete then it is time for a new update to replace the old one.

rips have made it obsolete.