I've spent a week listening to the most common suggestions in chat and through message in game. Seems as though most people agree that there is an imbalance between the three main styles of Zorg. I went into chat about an hour ago and asked the first person I saw if I could interview them.


After asking him if he'd like to answer a few questions and tell me his perspective:



12:57:12 ‹Lightning› Even to new players, now, it seems as though fleeting is much more advanced than the other two - and the only style worthwhile.
12:57:25 not really
12:57:30 i am a raider
12:57:40 and i have grown quite fast
12:57:55 ‹Lightning› Raiding is being considered fleeting in this idea.
12:58:01 oh
12:58:03 ok
12:58:13 ‹Lightning› So many advancements in new ships, none in mines and defense.
12:58:18 what are the other to then?
12:58:25 two
12:58:27 ‹Lightning› Fleeting, Mining, Turtling.
12:58:46 turtling is not an option because of score differences
12:59:03 and def is not really capable of killing fleets
12:59:03 ‹Lightning› That's what people have been saying.
12:59:07 because...
12:59:16 the combined shields
12:59:22 ‹Lightning› Which was not how the game used to be. All 3 styles were equally powerful back when ZE started.
12:59:23 thats a problem
12:59:45 being more or less a noob
12:59:59 ‹Lightning› Turtles are almost extinct, mining is nearly only half of the player base without being a hybrid. Extreme fleeters (who used to be a bit rare) are now become too much say other players.
13:00:00 i found it frustrating that i build WAR shipd
13:00:22 and got them wiped out, with the other person loosing none
13:00:23 ‹Lightning› As a player, how do you think we can fix this imbalance?
13:01:27 as i said, the combined shields are no good
13:01:28 ‹Lightning› New advancements in defense and mines? Research? A cap on fleeters?
13:01:42 if you attack battleships you loose
13:01:56 maybe not much if balanced but atleast some
13:02:06 ‹Lightning› Alright.
13:02:12 ‹Lightning› Very good point.
13:02:18 also being attack by someone 550 times your size...
13:02:23 i had that
13:02:30 not motivating
13:02:37 ‹Lightning› So a larger gap between attackers and the attackable?
13:03:02 yeah probably declining with the score going up
13:03:12 otherwise the big players have no targets
13:03:38 like 1-5 to 1-10 1-20
13:03:52 otherwise our top guys will quit
13:03:55 ‹Lightning› Almost a tier system then?
13:04:05 yeah something like that
13:04:18 also crystal mines seem overly expensive
13:05:02 i remember after a month asking a top guy when he build a 38 crystal mine when it became profitable
13:05:03 ‹Lightning› Would lowering the cost of crystal mines encourage people to mine?
13:05:09 he never answered
13:05:13 well yes
13:05:24 if not being raided whilst having defense
13:05:41 in a reasonable ratio sofcourse
13:06:23 ‹Lightning› Do you think with all these powerful new ships and decrease of attack value in defense that turtles are - now - nearly pointless?
13:07:05 yes
13:07:10 but
13:07:20 thats mainly the score diffence
13:07:34 or atleast how much fleet one can send
13:07:44 i play x
13:07:54 and it doesnt matter how much def i build
13:08:21 i cant block a large fleeter, or even worse he will run off without a scratch
13:08:27 sure he pays deut
13:08:41 but he could even have a roamer
13:09:29 ‹Lightning› Incentives for fleeters are obviously raiding and crashing. For miners, it's building stronger mines and getting more res. What incentive do you think the game could give to turtles?
13:09:29 also the smaller ships seem to have no use
13:10:16 well we both know that 2000bc are good enough to kill any small turtle
13:10:28 ok if they are big its a problem
13:10:39 but how many big ones are there?
13:10:46 i only know kuddlez
13:10:52 ‹Lightning› Not many anymore
13:11:16 no because the smaller ones get crashed anyway
13:11:40 ‹Lightning› So how can we prevent this? New research? New defense?
13:11:54 ‹Lightning› Defense bonuses against fleets?
13:11:57 i asked a well known fleeter a few days ago, if i had ten m metal 5 m crystal and 400bc and 10 ec
13:12:18 covered by 90k def would you launch?
13:12:21 yes he said
13:12:30 and showed me why
13:13:48 no the answer is a strenght scale
13:14:07 IF someone has so much fleet you cant attack this person
13:14:20 or if you can only with so much
13:14:33 but then you attack a player below 1m he has no LG and hurray
13:14:54 sorted
13:15:01 turtle dead
13:15:25 can i launch some fleets?
13:15:31 ‹Lightning› And that also points towards the fact that strong players attack too many weak players.
13:16:09 yes but what can they do?
13:16:16 the are awesome targets
13:16:32 they dont know better
13:16:51 when i reached 100k 9 out of 15 planets got ()^&*@)*!!!
13:17:04 i am rather resilient
13:17:08 but most arent
13:17:19 in 1 night
13:17:25 i didnt know fs
13:17:36 so i learned the hard way
13:17:52 i thought my def would scare them off
13:20:52 ‹Lightning› So the combinations of shields, the size of attackable players, and the cost of mine vs. mine are large issues you'd say?
13:21:20 yes and thats from a more or less noob perspective
13:21:31 and i think thats the people you want to reach
13:21:34 attrackt
13:21:39 ‹Lightning› Most definately.
13:21:47 ‹Lightning› Thank you for your time, ______.
13:22:03 no problem, thank you for youra
13:22:06 yours
13:22:29 mainly the crystal m ines i might add
13:23:09 ‹Lightning› May I have permission to send a copy of our conversation to a PM to Zorg?
13:24:26 ofcourse i am happy if he knows what i think should improve


Later, they asked me to show it publicly as well.

Get rid of the Scoreboard and take the glory out of being top Attacker/Raider and that will be a good start..too many attacking for the top spot rather than the profit....especially in Massacre.....players can't even protect half a days res judging by some of the shocking c/r I have seen there.....and Top Defender is a joke....as soon as the Scoreboard resets everyone knows exactly who to target and batter down even more......stated all this before in previous forum posts but to no avail.....now the proof is in the vmoders and inactives on both Extreme and Massacre

It's been a while since I played, I left again over Christmas. The main problem I found was that anything other than fleeting simply wasn't viable - turtling does not defend your overnight production because attacking fleets simply have too large shields, do too much damage, and have too much of a rapid fire bonus against defences. Turtling was a very powerful option back when I first joined Zorg, when the game was only about 3 months old, because there was no rapidfire. Defences were simply better than the fleets sent against them - but couldn't move. But that all changed. In addition to rapid fire, the big fleeters are just too big. It's too easy for the big names to arbitrarily crush a planet for 0 losses.

My suggestion would be one or all of the following, bullet points first, explanations after:
1. Nanite factories increase the chance for a defence to be repaired by 1% per level.
2. Expensive, high crystal, high deut, weaponry that ignores shields and causes direct damage to hull.
3. Weapons with something similar to the 'Vorpal' rule from D&D/HoM&M - one shot, one kill, regardless of damage caused.
4. Higher shields on defensive emplacements.
5. Rapid fire on defences against fleets.


1. Nanite factories are expensive, but the minor buff would prove useful to turtlers, giving them less to rebuild after each crash. Even the biggest names rarely have more than nanite 5 on every planet, the average player has 2 or 3, at least when I played. It's a very small buff but for a dedicated turtler, it's a real money saver. I remember a guy with one million Light Lasers on a planet - getting 1% extra back would give him ten thousand Light Lasers back. For the big shells, it would be vital.
2. Just what it says on the tin. Make these more expensive than plasma cannons, maybe similar to Light Lasers in that they're high damage, low defence. My suggestion would be give this to Rocket Launchers. Other than the early game, the only purpose RLs serve is to get rid of excess metal that might make you a target if you can't sell it. Giving the RL no stat increases but this...'phase' rule would give them a purpose for the rest of the game.
3. If these were implemented, I'd suggest a 'graviton' cannon, very expensive, targetting the largest ship first (So RIPs would be hit first). Say, 8,000,000 metal, 5,000,000 crystal, 2,00,000 deut, and needing Zorg Physics 2 and Graviton 3. Very, very expensive: But you're guaranteed to crush at least one enemy ship to paste, and one of the biggest the other guy has.
4. Another plain and simple idea. Make defences more durable and give them more shields. Shield domes are near worthless, everyone buys one because they can, but once you're over ~200k points into the game, you're not relying on shield domes dissuading anyone from attacking. Make shield domes provide much larger shields (Perhaps multiply shield strength of a shield dome by the level of shield research, not increase it by 10% for each level. So yes, level 20, it's providing 200,000 shield points for a Large Shield Dome - but we all know that's still a midgame defence and anyone with that level of shielding is well into the late game.), and/or remove the limit on them.
5. Defences have no rapid fire against incoming ships, and everything bigger than a cruiser has RF against at least one defence. Give defences RF! The bigger the defence, the bigger the ship it gets RF against. LLs are point defence weapon, give a bonus against fighters. HL are a bit bigger, give RF against cruisers. Gauss against Battleships and Cruisers, Ion Cannons against Lunar Guardians, Plasma cannons against RIPs and Destroyers. Nothing huge, but even a RF of 5 would help a lot of defences.

Just my two cents. I obviously haven't played the game in a while, but I can say that the reasons I left were twofold: Not enough of the old guard around to keep me engaged in the community, too many faces lost, and the fact that mining and turtling was doing nothing but painting a big red bullseye over my planets.

I play the mining style in 3 servers (Standard, X and Speed). I dabbled in a little fleet when I started in Standard and X, and for a little while in Speed at a later date, but basicly I have been mining in those three servers almost my entire time in Zorg.

I have not had to make any substantial changes to my playing style. The double wimping of the lls (30% reduction of attack strength and then the fixing of the BE to make RF work properly) just meant I built a little more defense and the LG is basicly a non-event to a miner. Of course, granted, I was already well established by the time of the LL wimping and LG intro, so perhaps it is different for newcomers.

As for turtling, I have never seriously considered it because it has always been the case in my experience that the big fleeters can crack anything anyway and in fact big shells have always tended to provoke D bashing, because fleeters just in principle don't like the idea that someone can hide behind a shell. For my part, I have always tried to find a balance of enough D to protect a couple days resources but not enough to provoke a D bash. (I may have overshot the mark atm in X just because for a while some time back I had very little time to play but instead of vmoding I just did defense dumps).

So, in sum, basicly as a miner I barely noticed the changes.

pretty much turtles are useless- these days def is merely a... lets say fodder in case something happens
and you have to build it in huge numbers to matter but other than that- and any player that has 500 rips would walk in and out like nothing happened - lets be real-500 rips are not so hard to reach or a good player or for a top 30 player- and that sums it add 20k bcs to that fleet and you can kill any nob - there is a huge gap- i said it before and i will say it again- look at the answers i got- viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9690
"life is not fair- why should a game be" good point- and i agree with it so mainly who gives a crap about it- i don't do you gozar?perses? or any other top players? heh- i for one don't really care about the nobs
i crash- fleet down - and im around expect it gone - it works for me- so this forum post is pretty much pointless

God_of_Death wrote:heh- i for one don't really care about the nobs
i crash- fleet down - and im around expect it gone - it works for me- so this forum post is pretty much pointless

This is anything from pointless. It's for me to see your opinions - even your's. That's why there's a poll. This is my job. I will continue to do it until Zorg sees fit to retire me. But thank you for your previous input. I do appreciate it.

My first post and I’m already suggestion things that should change the game significantly ...

Anyways here are my two suggestions:

- There is a limit on how many defenses you can destroy(max 30%) Why not bring this to ships as well. Raiders and new players are afraid to built ships because they would attract fleeters and a fleet no matter how big can be totally destroyed in 30 min. If we would set a max of a fleet that can be destroyed (let’s say 40%) when hit on your own planet, than players wouldn’t leave the game after their fleet has been totally destroyed. In reality a big Army is also newer entirely destroyed.

- Fleeters are sending massive number of ships to prevent any loses. If there would be a percentage of ships that would be destroyed no matter what, a fleeter would think twice if he is really going to send his ships(this would stop fleeters attacking some targets just out of fun). In reality when a bigger army hits a smaller one (1.000 soldiers against 10.000) the bigger one will also suffer some loses.

This are improvements from which everybody could profit: Raiders (small fleeters if you want), Turtles and “Big” Fleeters (how?... well they will have more players who they can bully)

Hightower wrote:My first post and I’m already suggestion things that should change the game significantly ...

Anyways here are my two suggestions:

- There is a limit on how many defenses you can destroy(max 30%) Why not bring this to ships as well. Raiders and new players are afraid to built ships because they would attract fleeters and a fleet no matter how big can be totally destroyed in 30 min. If we would set a max of a fleet that can be destroyed (let’s say 40%) when hit on your own planet, than players wouldn’t leave the game after their fleet has been totally destroyed. In reality a big Army is also newer entirely destroyed.

- Fleeters are sending massive number of ships to prevent any loses. If there would be a percentage of ships that would be destroyed no matter what, a fleeter would think twice if he is really going to send his ships(this would stop fleeters attacking some targets just out of fun). In reality when a bigger army hits a smaller one (1.000 soldiers against 10.000) the bigger one will also suffer some loses.

This are improvements from which everybody could profit: Raiders (small fleeters if you want), Turtles and “Big” Fleeters (how?... well they will have more players who they can bully)

completely disagree - if you have no idea how unprofitable some fleet crashes can be

Well… Give me an example God. I’m not a fleeter so I don’t know.

When you are attacking someone you know you can lose your fleet and you certainly know you will lose the deut.

But someone who is investing a lot of time and patients in his fleet can lose it all in few minutes of inattention. That’s depressing and causes a lot of players to leave the game.

If you would lose all of your fleet today what would you do?

i have been crashed 3 times. i have lost smaller raiding fleets. most would still call me a noob. i have learned to dodge and to fs correctly. if it weren't for the big fleeters comming after me i would not have learned what i have. i know that a small fleeter or raider can hurt a big fleeter. i did so and got #1 attacker atm. i have never even been on that board before. if a new player gives up just over being crashed, then good riddance. we want players who present challenge. as for turtles and miners, i really can't imagine playing that way. maybe it's just me but what fun is that? i do think that in x def is a waste of res. def in speed can be useful to help make yourself unprofitable. that is the key, don't present a profitable target. new players should get in an alliance with good players who can show them how to play. they should also ask questions of those who crash them, i did and now i have a fleet and hunt those who would leave their fleet down or any other target that brings profit for that matter. this is a war game you know. as far as crystal mines, i find them to be cheap. deut mines cost to much energy i think. other than that i think the smaller guys are just crying because they have not truly learned the game yet. keep at it though noobs, be persistant and then dominate those who preyed upon you