The game has matured to the point where it seems the future is uncertain. Fleets, especially numbers of rips are far larger than anyone imagined back when only a few players were past the 1 million mark. This has changed the structure and balance of the game, in particular the subject of destroying moons. This was intended to be a rare and risky operation, likely to occur only during a war. With current numbers of rips, the risk is much lower and moons are being popped at an increasing rate. There is almost no defense. Players can moonshot until they have no BS left and still not get a 9K+ moon. Even a rubied moon has no guarantee of a decent size. Anything smaller is at serious risk, eventually. The only practicle defense at this point is to join the other half of the server in vmode. Not the way I care to play, but I see little option.

What's the fix? There's a couple of things that can be done. Put some risk back into moon popping. Make attacking fleet loss 100% whether the moon is destroyed or not. This provides cost verses the payout of uncovering a tasty fleet. Or the bean counters might like this one: lower the cost to "buy" a moon and make bought moons un-poppable. The attacker would not know for sure and would risk loosing the attacking rips. This puts a challenge back into moon destruction and generates some cash to hire someone to code ACS attacks. I'm contenet to play cat & mouse with the large fleets as long as my moons are safe. What I won't do is log in to see them systematicly popped. I've spent alot on rubies in the past and don't mind doing so as long as there is a point to playing. Without changes, I doubt I'll play anymore.

While I don't agree with the unpoppable moons, I do believe something should be done about the risk-free business of moon-popping. The ability for one person to be able to pop all but the highest of moons with a 100% chance is just not good for the game as a whole.

However...Move to Game Suggestions?

I would think having RIPs roll for loss even after a successful moon destruction mission would be more than sufficient to accomplish your goal, and I would fully support that. There's no reason to make either unpoppable moons or 100% loss of RIPs.

Been thinking how i would respond to this..looked it from both points of view..so here is my thoughts as a whole on the subject.

I am gonna totally disagree on any changes regarding moon destroy missions..and the come back will be sure easy for you to say since you have almost 1000 rips..and my response is the last moon i destroyed was defiants back in our war so i do not throw the weight around as much as i could be even though i have that potential.And i have also earned that right as i have played the game the way the mechanics have been set up and changed.

Last year and for much of the year of 09 RiPs was pointless to build as he who had the most Capital Ships ruled the world.Than rapidfire was implamented and once again he who had the most capital ships ruled the world and there was a clear attacker advantage,and even though this was in my favor i did not agree with it,spoke out about it in my hits,AND most importantly sent combat reports to Zorg,(how many CR's have you and all the others sent BTW),to get the issue addressed.
Toke them awhile but they have come up with a combat engine that is worth it for those that take the time and invest into ship building.

Lets take Myrsee's battle with alpha as a good example on this point.First lets break down the two biggest flaws in Alpha's fleetsave for that night(sorry alpha not digging and i am pretty sure you will agree on both points,) 1 he did not fleetsave from his larger 9k moon and 2 he did not fleetsave from a moon to a moon but rather did a recycle mission from his smaller moon.

well two things could have greatly hindered the hit,had he done same mission from the 9k the chances of RiP lose becomes an astranomical number..but lets say myrsee was successful in destroying that 9k moon. Had alpha done an attack mission to another moon.an inactive moon and for the love of god there is 1000's in this game..he still would not have shown on phalanx and would still have his fleet.

6 weeks ago that hit would have produced a zero loss hit for myrsee and with current changes you can see he took a beating as well ..profitable still but not as much as if this same attack happened before X-mas so good job to the zorg crew for gettin a better balance going!

ANY EVERY AND ALL missions involving a moon is invisible to phalanx.What you are proposing here is a carebear fix when all that is needed is to be strategic in your decisions and how you are fleetsaving..yes you will probably still lose your moon if it is believed you have a profitable fleet..but done properly your fleet can still remain safe.IF you get lazy and don't FS this way than you are setting yourself up for defeat...just because a current fleetsave is working doesn't make it right.I have done nothing but my best to educate the server as a whole with every hit i have done, told everyone how to avoid us.. how to remain safe..keep what you built.

I see what is going on in the game and i as well as a lot of other experienced players have done nothing but point out mistakes being repeatedly made but the community which we are happy to share.

Each time i see a post on how if things don't change the game is gonna be ruined and we fleeters are to blame and that is just not the case at all. What i see is community hell-bent on trying to build in a way to avoid hit rather than building to do the hitting themselves. I came up thru some of the best teammates and people working together the game saw in SoC sirduction Lordofwar mintaka Khan SBT and several others..i didn't run scared..i turned on the burners and built like an SoB to hit them..using all the strategy i tell you guys about..i was able to record the only 2 Fleet crashes on ~V~ when i got Flyfoot and later Lord_of_War..and it wasn't because i came here looking to change the game to favor my style but rather playing it the way everyone had to to accomplish my goals.

Now thru time and investing i am grouped with some of the best misfits 1 could ask for some my former 'enemies' some the victims of our rathe some former mates but all with 1 goal to work together to accomplish what we set out to do.They have done so on their own dedication and this is what you and everyone else has to decide atm..do 'I' have that determination to accomplish what all the other fleeters have done or do i want to be a victim of a bad CR because i didn't take the advice from someone who worked hard for almost a year to be where he is and is even trying to make the player base smarter in the process.

Sorry if you think this was arrogant on my behalf but it is what it is and the game is just fine ATM (as far as RiPS are concerned).They have a good Battle engine going on atm so i would like to see more important issues taking care of next rather then worry about people going into VM because of RiPS.

Better keep this thread in General Discussion and if any key points are made, then create a new one in Suggestions with these points.

/me stays out of discussion even though really tempted to join

I think the point Avon is trying to make is the more frequent event of moons being popped just to peek at whats underneath.

I think if you analyzed it from a profiteering point of view, Zorg could offer a "super moon" for an exorbitant sum i.e. 9876 fields to be obvious and then make an absolute killing... for a short time.

There's two things to bring up;

one, by making the risk greater for the attacker it might return the moon popping searches just to wars and targets of opportunity - this makes the average once-a-day players breathe a little easier. (some of the people who've spent the most on Zorg rubies tend to be the people who want their empire to last)

two, the current methods of getting moons is extremely difficult considering how easy it is to destroy moons now to compare to even 6 months ago. I know the sizes of moons that aren't safe from me so... why not make the moon shot requests resource driven instead of zorg ruby driven? why not give the choice and have zorg rubies give a HIGHER chance of success for a 9K+ moon. why not cut the weekend players a break and make an incoming moon destruction mission just another day in zorg instead of a devastating blow to your entire empire?

Theres alot of suggestions and things to debate, and really I'm more posting to add to the discussion instead of actually asking for the changes so... I'm not going to pop this in the suggestion box but maybe someone might...

Either way, moon-popping or not, once I've shucked the duties of real life I'll be back to keep my name out of any headlines again

oh and check out my new avatar! few people might learn from it

i have looked at it from that point and actually wouldn't have an issue if super moons could be purchased.

and as far as the lasting empires for those who purchase rubies..would be interesting to see how much $$$ i have spent on rubies to support the game...

Feel free to publicly advertise that zorg if you have the figures handy

some nice points gumpps but the fact remains that they popped 3 sets of same system moons and a few singles so moon to moon was usless there 2nd finding an inactive moon to fs to can take you a few sectors away which as the fleet grows that becomes an unsustainable option you can put foward any argument you like but there is a serious risk to the future of fleets other than cargos in zorg you cant really deny the fact as an aliance and even single players in some case you can within 2-3 days 1week tops you can expose any fleet 150-250k + and have it trapped or recycled so for VVV is really just a matter of waiting for the cows to get fat enough before the slaughter because a fleet that size without its own moons and jump gates only has around a week tops saving to inactive moons or other before running out of fuel it is possible but only or so long because as an aliance vvvs teamwork is as dangerous as their fleets maybe more but regardless of the reason the game hes become unbalanced to the point of stagnation and a lot of the time or all of that time there was no one with the ability to pop 100% let alone the whole alliance so most of the points youve made are weak at best

weak ..i guess your right it can't be done..Rukia was not able to build almost 700 RiPS in his armada.an amount even i would be foolish to deal with as 1 wrong RF direction and i could lose all my dessies or 1/2 my BS..just can't be done..he must have built all those in 1 week..or..he survived several moon destroy missions of his own from Defiant and Grom..followed a plan like 1 i layed out ..didn't make a fleet larger than he could Fleet save and built a fleet that doesn't show up so fast on fleet rankings ..seems to me he was strategic in a strategy game on obtaining a fleet that only a couple can hit and even than the profability is very risky

and here let me look at my moons...yep i'll be dang..you can build defensive structures on them..imagine that..why would i start preparing myself for acs attack for when people combine their rips to take out my moons like that..

if anything i would suggest something that could be easier to implament such as allowing the construction of nanite factories on moons so murtling could be done faster.There is a counter to moon destroy missions out there already..just because i am the only 1 doing it doesn't mean the rest of you shouldn't be trying it either


EDIT: and with every reference to our teamwork you present yourself with another option that could be worth while in that i would do some research of your own and find people to gel with and form a group of players equally willing to undertake the task at hand in dethroning us.

Numbers alone won't be enough..strategic thinkers of smaller numbers is better than drones of larger numbers..and Nads the size of DJ's head wouldn't hurt either


and appears ALEX_IV had a similiar thought in protecting his moon

Rocket Launcher 12338 Light Laser 38476
Heavy Laser 586 Gauss Cannon 1023
Ion Cannon 372 Plasma Cannon 208
Small Shield Dome 1 Large Shield Dome 1
Buildings
Robot Factory 10 Ship Yard 17
ACS Depot 1 Lunar Base 11
Sensor Phalanx 4 Jump Gate 1


raises the stakes on how many RiPS needs to be sent..yes i can overcome that but the point is he is using current game mechanics to assist in protecting his moon

During the first few months of the game, I though 7.5k moon would be good enough to deter moon destruction missions.
Now even an 8.9 can be destroyed @ 100% chance. They would even destroy it for fun because "it costs him nothing". Maybe a 9.5 moon won't be safe from 100% destruction in the future.

I'm sure he knows there is a risk of a ninja and ACS defend. The risk will greatly decline if he knows I don't have a fleet to counter his RIPs.
That leaves ACS defend which requires at least 1 hr to stay on the host planet. That is more than enough to move a fleet from another galaxy to destroy the ACS defend fleet. Even if we cut it down to 30 mins, the attackers could set up a backup less than 30 mins away in case the RIPS get ninja'd. It ends up to who has the most fleet around the time of the moon destroy mission. I think the attackers get a slight advantage because they can set up the time and can do feints too.

ACS attack might even out the field a little...

You can also blind hit the RIPs on their return mission instead of trying to ACS defend the moon. The kind of risks change but it still ends up to who has the most fleet at the time.

Players can also just dodge an ACS attack and hit the separated fleets on their return.
It goes on and on...

On the other hand... ACS attack may make it worse.

Yeah. The game looks really nice if players are on a level playing field.
But there are too many risks so why don't we try mining while maintaining a small raiding fleet. Maybe we can force the lions to claw their way through the turtles or turn to cannibalism