Zorg wrote:By the way, this surely has happened in the past again. This time is simply more outright and public. I cannot believe that no one ever crashed his bought account. It is the "bought" that annoys you I understand but we cannot interfere to this.

This has indeed happened a few times before....I only wish that player would come forward and tell everyone what happened to his account .....

Zorg wrote:

mightyoz wrote:Zorg wrote:-

If fleet crashes are deliberate, fabricated then it falls into the milking rule.
It is worth noting that hits where the DF is returned to the loser, are an exception as this is a way to recycle/rebuild fleet.


The first line, fine. Agreed. It is milking.

The second line, not so clear. Some fleets are considerable in size. It would infringe the milking rule in many cases to return the df as this amounts, probably in most cases to more than 24 hours production.

Cases like a fleet recycling are pretty obvious. All transports are logged. So when an admin sees a big dispatch, he will look in combat history. You can override the 24hour production in such cases. You need to do it fast though and close to the combat time. Not two days later.

Ah, right, okay then.

It's just that earlier is was said that rules were rules, that sort of thing. Zorgs words were "The rules are the boundaries" So, rules are rules, except when they're not rules, then the rules are exempted. But only if within a certain time frame. Okay, clears things up then.

Thanks for the clarification.

mightyoz wrote: It's just that earlier is was said that rules were rules, that sort of thing. So, rules are rules, except when they're not rules, then the rules are exempted. But only if within a certain time frame. Okay, clears things up then.

Oz, the real rule here is milking. Players must not milk and must play their accounts to their own benefit (with the exception being retirement), that is the real rule. There are all sorts of reasons a player is allowed to send more than his/her hourly production without it being milking, as I have done on numerous occasions (returning DF, finder's fee, etc...). The hourly production rule is only intended to prevent milking.

This is tangential to most of what everyone else is discussing, but I had to point it out...

I understand this. But it goes back, waaaay back, lol. to my original sentiments. I have reiterated these on many occasions . The point being that we need validity. Not a change in the rules, but a re-writing of these rules. Make them clearer. There is a lot of contradiction going on here.

One minute we are being told that "the rules are the boundaries". We are then told something different. This is fine by me. But we need to know these boundaries. How can we expect to abide by certain rules when there are so many variations that come in to play. How do we know when we have crossed a line with respect to these rules?

There is no clarity. We read the rules. We abide by these rules. We see an infraction, we report it. We are then told that these rules have exceptions if something is deemed not serious enough. Like I said, the rules are the rules except when they're not?

So, you see an infringement, the likelihood is that, in future, players do not report anything.

Also, you didn't need to point anything out, I know what I can see and have read.

I have said enough on this matter and the ask Admin topic. Good luck all with the continuation of this topic.
I will read this topic with...relish.

mightyoz wrote:I understand this. But it goes back, waaaay back, lol. to my original sentiments. I have reiterated these on many occasions . The point being that we need validity. Not a change in the rules, but a re-writing of these rules. Make them clearer. There is a lot of contradiction going on here.

One minute we are being told that "the rules are the boundaries". We are then told something different. This is fine by me. But we need to know these boundaries. How can we expect to abide by certain rules when there are so many variations that come in to play. How do we know when we have crossed a line with respect to these rules?

There is no clarity. We read the rules. We abide by these rules. We see an infraction, we report it. We are then told that these rules have exceptions if something is deemed not serious enough. Like I said, the rules are the rules except when they're not?

So, you see an infringement, the likelihood is that, in future, players do not report anything.

Well put.......I have seen exact offence occur before with a player doing exact same thing as "player A".......but the offence then resulted in a severe penalty......in this new case the penalty was nothing at all........same offence , different verdict, different outcome........so what are we , the players, supposed to think and do?

Which is this other issue you speak of?

Here is what I think:

You cannot cover all cases of rules. Just like in real life with the legal system. If we see someone breaking a rule, we report it, just as in real life. We let the legal system, or in this case, the owners of the game, decide what should be done. Maybe the judge was in good mood and let the offender off, we have no control over it. We can whine and complain all we want about a serious offense when the person gets off on a technicality.

We must learn to accept the things we cannot change, change the things we can and find the wisdom to know the difference.

Laws in any legal system are laid down. After this arguments arise. It is a well known fact that laws can then be set by precedence. In this case, precedents have been set, but again, the precedents that have been set are then not adhered to. Different "judgements" are handed down for the same offences. Hence the continuing arguments.

However, this isn't the legal system of any particular country. There are a list of simple rules. Rules full of ambiguity and wishy washy lines, between these lines it gets very blurry. These rules and the way they are written are open to interpretation and as they stand, there will be those who will set out to interpret them as they see fit, for their own gain and advancement.

Until these rules are cast down in stone, in a legible, easy to comprehend way then this will continue ad infinitum.

As Megamedes quotes from the Serenity Prayer, I will agree with him.

Things will not change as long as we have these, in the very loosest of sense, rules, in their current format.

wonderful idea here zorg thank you for taking your time and showing us you still care about us

You could also summarize it in this way;

1.A new player is unaware of the rules.
2.As a newbie, he will know some of the rules.
3.As a lowbie he will know most of the rules and may attempt to bend them.
4.As a regular user, he will report other players for breaking the rules.
5.Once he has became a veteran, he might attempt to borderline them. He will wonder why the rules are not enforced for his enemies.
6.Once he has been around for years, he will spread his insight to the rest as by this time, he surely knows more than administration.

It happens in every online game.