the 1 thing i for sure maul over is the 10k protection..1 hand if it is raised or curve based the new people survive longer..but as eOs has pointed out before it is mute if they don't take that time to learn how to survive correctly.

The other thing that has baffled me since the beginning of time..is why everyone insists on putting all their eggs in 1 basket.

where was it written all your ships have to fleet saved together or even from the same location..take actions to dull the pain should your fleets show up..i never asked him and never probed him but i am almost positive after the slash/mintaka battle that Joe never fleet saved all his ships together and from some spot.

until a sure fire tested idea is in place to correct/protect the youngins be creative in how you conduct business

im not bashing or insulting anyone just my opinion.

1)i agree with alpha on the join vvv or get ur fleet destroy because no one can touch them. I always think that if one player do attck a VVV player it will reveal their fleet size and after that the whole VVV alliance will start poping that players moon and recycle his fleet. thats is because they can. Like a pack of wolf messing with a lion cub, if the lion cub scream the pride will show up and the wolf is asking for it. Just look at the new vvv recruit in the beginning i bet many player were thinking" oh look we can finnally hit someone from vvv". but no because they know if you hit one of their player ur asking for it they will hit u 10 times as hard. look at those new vvv player no one can touch them because the male lions are watching over the cub, as this cub grow stronger and stronger because he/she know no one will touch them.
2) i also agree with urweirdsaysi on even if make no mistake on FS the bigger ur fleets, the risky it gets.Who has a fleet that can crash you? other than vvv, even if alpha still has his fleet and can crash this player, it would be foolish to post it on UoH. it will catch the vvv player attention and they will work weeks as a team to crash alphas fleets. how hard can it be for VVV? pop all is moons like killing a fly. fleet shows up their goes his fleets. A wolf can kill a lion cub but as soon as there is a adult lion around who dares to come near the cub? as this cub grow stronger day by day when the same wolf come by again and the lion cub had grown up, that lion cub now can kill that wolf. refer to new vvv recruit back then,anyone can hit them, but now the they got the top 5 player watching over them who will hit the new recruits? every day the new recruit will keep raiding and crashing im sure their not even FS because they know they are safe, so there fleet will grow and grow and reach to the top 15 or so with the biggest fleet and while they had reach that goal no one can crash that fleet so since the playe dont have to worry about getting hit they will keep raiding crashing earning large amount of resource and start upgrading their mine or whatever they want, there point will increase faster than any other player.
3) and i agree with gumppy on if we want to dethrone the vvv or compete with them we must play they way they play. form a small group of good players, every single one must be a fleeter and work as a team probing other player and crash their way up the ladder.

I'm glad to see such a level-headed discussion about this "issue".

Again, to go back on one of Avon's reasons for posting, and weird's very valid point - there's a point where any game can become literally impossible to grow beyond a certain point unless you're a very active player, have balls the size of dolly parton's more famous features, and the luck of the devil (figuratively).

Some might know me, and I tip my hat to those that have crossed paths with me. My fleet has been well known for a coon's age while my fleetsaving methods have been shared with every single member who's joined The Fraternity or Illigitemati Eternum. However, as Gumppy so astutely pointed out, I play when I can and I play hard - when I can't play I'm in v-mode.

Unfortunately, v-moding has been looked on as cowardly... I've never done it to escape from an aggressor, it's only to ensure I didn't return to destruction because of a long absence...

I've played this way for a year now and it's served me well, but I'm still small fry - there's little I could do if anyone made a concerted effort to take me down. I'd end up being a turtle. Now, with the change in tides and the disproportionate attacks becoming more and more common, we have to ask ourselves... who is Zorg running the game for? The top 25-50 players or the thousand+ below? The dedicated players who've spent cash on their empires or the players who have just played to waste some time?

Something that's made me wonder for a while though.. why no tiered system for the rankings? i.e. 50K can raid all below 50K while 100K only raids 100K to 50K. 250K can only attack 250K to 100K and so on.. gradually increasing. Sure it limits targets.. but it also acts as a training tool. It lets the noobs learn the mechanics and battle eachother on level ground - softens the hard lessons and grudges inspire them to play longer. Gives them attitude as they progress up each tier.. then when they hit a certain level they're playing with the bad boys. Then there's a more specific goal than just run away as fast as you can until you can fight the guy on top yadda yadda ya bull that most players spout (till they get crashed)

I'm thinking out loud but.. does anyone else think this would work?

While there would be a purpose to this, I think throwing players out there at 10K is how it should be left. When I was at about 28K points as a noob, the original klizac came by and knocked the crap outta me and dropped me below 20K, but it was the most important lesson I ever got in ZE. Players need the lesson in development, whether it is the hard way of taking it on the chin, or reading the forums on their own. Almost everyone, if not everyone will be crashed, it mide as well happen to teach them when they are small, than to discourage them when they are bigger.

As for VVV... nobody can stop them, simply put. They are too skilled and dedicated and powerful. But it is not like they cheated, they earned their right to be top-dogs in ZE. Would ACS being implemented earlier have changed things? Probably. Is ACS coming in at the perfect time to help VVV? Definetley. But these are the hands that people are dealt, and you have to roll with them. If anything was changed, it would be simply unfair.

it really annoys me how we are dragged into this and beaten on, yes we are the most powerful alliance, yes some of us are impossible to take down from outside force, what would you have us do? turn on each other and destroy each others fleets until we are weak again? then what? someone else will rise up and take top spots and it will be the same all over again. there is always a superpower, just deal with it.

sure there are a few annoying little things in the game that make is difficult for low players and could be changed, but i think most of the issue is the players. people are predictable, if you are predictable you are going to get smashed. use your head. it shocked me when i realised this game has been going for over a year and most of the players still havent improved their skill beyond having a tantrum about imbalance.

as for ghost, i resent that comment, as i said to someone else who made that point before. yes, if someone destroys one of the lower point players in our allaince there is a high chance that one of us or the rest of us will be bent on revenge. are you saying thats a bad thing? its called teamwork and friendship, you might want to look up the definition. if we dont support each other then there is no point being in an alliance.

besides, gumppy made a very good point in one of his posts. isnt the entire point of this game to become so powerful you dominate the universe? yes, it is, and thats what has happened. and now one alliance has accomplished the GOAL of the game, its a bad thing?


anyway.. rant over, eos's idea of tiered ranking seems good, but it wouldnt work unless there were plenty of active players.

wow shandris you should really try building from scratch and earning your position before making comments on game mechanics and how the game works before commenting like youve been there and done that you started with a full blown account joined the top aliance and have experienced none of whats being talked about

Last Warning. Stop flaming or face a ban. ~Weresloth

she can say it well dunt u think?
sure i dun like the alliance VVV but there are many good people in it its the tag i hate (to many hits )no jk
its almost impossible to take VVV down lol especially since they like to hunt they accomplished the goal of the game good and most of them have earned it
a very few just joined to enjoy the protection the tag VVV offers not many people will hit a player with the tag VVV the ones who do are stripped of their moons and fleet i have respect for certain players other i despise just for the fact i mentionned before
im just stating my mind if u can't stand it im back from vac mode in 3 days u can hunt me then


btw srry jess for the bad sentences i know u dun like the lack of ?,.and so on

I'd like to make a small request, after seeing how this thread seems to be turning. If it turns into some sort of flame war, can the mods just remove the flame posts and allow everyone else to continue the topic? It just seems that a few people are going to totally ruin it for everyone else at this rate. Thanks.

Shandris wrote:it really annoys me how we are dragged into this and beaten on...

Like I said before, I don't think anyone (Well, maybe one or two) is trying to bash VVV. You DO play well and you DO use teamwork. That's fine and dandy. It's just that you are also a very good example of an overpowering force that the game simply doesn't seem to be able to handle. If it were RAWK, we'd be using RAWK as the example. If it were (lol) ETERNA, I'd still be using us as an example.

Like I said before, as the game grows, a few players WILL rise above others, it's only natural. But you've just got to find a way to limit how high above everyone else they can go, or it will end up having one or two people with 100 mil+ points and everyone else will still be starting off at 0. This happens in other games and the only solution is to just bombard the game with different servers.

I like the idea of tiered rankings, or even a permanent 10x (or something similar) protection, which limits how far ahead someone can go, simply by limiting targets. However, I've got my doubts anyone will appreciate that idea very much.

srry my post was supposed to be in front of alpha if u read it after alpha its in the wrong context srry for that

dont get me wrong i have friends in VVV myself i have nothing personal against any of there members i have a great respect for most of them and wont argue that they have earned their fleets and rankings most of them anyway I do however think that their might and skill as an alliance is putting the future of fleeting in zorg at risk there is such a thing as being too good and atm they are .you guys have no competition and are not going to in the foreseeable future and i dont like to presume but im sure the game was more fun when you were clawing your way to the top you gumpps wan this huge fleet that is your goal atm yuoll never need to use a 1/4 of it at this rate theres no battle you cant win no war can lose no one is ever going to attack you so really all the game is is sim city for you and will soon be that way or close to now for the the rest of VVV with o chance of long term survival players will stop building fleet or stop playing the galaxies are getting more and more barren theres many of us that have invested time and money into zorg we want it to thrive i can survive and gain in points either way i just cant build a fleet but i can mine and tech for a while and see what happens but most wont most have already gone