I like the sound of Massacre

the rf factor was introduced earlier in x which provided a vast range of fleeting parameters.

i am curious about one aspect of RF which has always been a shady thing for me to grasp on and i cannot find any reference on it.

Rapid Fire:
Ship A have RF of 15 over Ship B
on attacks if ship A selects Ship B randomly and makes a hit then it gets a (15-1)/15x100% chance of hitting again.

the chance factor is rather large and each hit and its corresponding hits are calculated independent of the last one. my question is if there is no break loop factor of say the maximum number of consecutive hits ship A can do on ship B based on RF it might as well go on to hit forever. but as in battles and sim shows that scenario is not in effect.

so i am asking what is the break loop for RF hit generations. or if it is put on stack what is the stack length?

You have to remember that the RF is lowered by 1 each time one more shot is determined,

for example:
((15-1)/15)x100% = 93%
((15-2)/15)x100% = 86%
((15-3)/15)x100% = 80%

There is always a high chance of low RF and a low chance of high RF with a cut off point of 15 as ((15-15)/15)x100% = 0%

thanks i suspected it might be as so. i didnt find any reference of this anywhere. but i trust ur sources cypher.

thanks man that helps alot. now off to find a linear equation to represent RF

just wanted to correct what cypher posted there. the chance factors for progressive hits from the last chance will be added to the following so it is not straight forward.

following would be what it would look like for an RF 15


RF 15

Additional Hits Chances %
0 --- 1 --- 100.00%
1 --- 0.933333333 --- 93.33%
2 --- 0.808888889 --- 80.89%
3 --- 0.647111111 --- 64.71%
4 --- 0.474548148 --- 47.45%
5 --- 0.316365432 --- 31.64%
6 --- 0.189819259 --- 18.98%
7 --- 0.101236938 --- 10.12% << that is a good pic if i am playing with chances.
8 --- 0.047243905 --- 4.72%
9 --- 0.018897562 --- 1.89%
10 --- 0.006299187 --- 0.63%
11 --- 0.001679783 --- 0.17%
12 --- 0.000335957 --- 0.03%
13 --- 4.47942E-05 --- 0.00%
14 --- 2.98628E-06 --- 0.00%
15 --- 0 --- 0.00%

so you see chances of having a 10 hits from an RF is already low ... as low as negligible. which is around the 2/3rd mark in the list. i am suspecting this same scenario can be seen on all of the RF.

considering this analogy if u have the following RFs then the maximum plausible RF u might get with a chance of more than 1% is going to be as follows.

Original RF ----- What u will get at a 1% chance which is max plausible RF chance
1 ----- 0
5 ----- 3
15 ----- 10
25 ----- 16
33 ----- 22
50 ----- 33
100 ----- 66
200 ----- 133
250 ----- 166
300 ----- 200
1250 ----- 833

The correct formula is:
R - 1 / R where R is the RF rating.

Usage is:

For 15 RF rating:
1 shot: 15 - 1 / 15 = 93.3%
2 shots: 14-1/14 = 92.8%
x shots = (Initial RF - number of shots so far) -1 / (Initial RF - number of shots so far)

Also updated to the Players Guide entry which is a more relevant thread for insight on how battle engine works: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7516&p=82549#p82549

So its the actual RF that decreases each shot...
Thanks for clearing it up

I think the new battle engine creates an imbalance. For example another player moonshot me with 46 battleships and I lost 1.2k rocket launchers out of 2.1k. Mind you I had 64k LL on that planet 350 ion cannon etc. Attacker recycles DF but at the end of the battle I have lost 720k metal (with far far superior defenses). Take another example attacker sends 1 rip at my planet (with the same defenses) and loses the rip but recycles it but I lose 34k LL (due to rips high RF) 70% regenerate so I lose 10200 LL's which is massive that's 7.6mil iron and 2.5mil crystal etc. The defenses were far far superior yet the loss was big. (2 rips would have cleaned me out). This makes defenses useless in my opinion. This also points out another flaw. Make one unit and lots of it because shields add up otherwise your stretching yourself thin over many different units and your losses will be big.

I have posted so many times on this subject yet have still had No reply. I wish someone could explain to me why this new battle engine is so one sided. I will say right now I have used the new sim and the results are as follows:-

1 Rip equal tech's . Now old BE 1000 BC could wipe this out without loss. New BE now requires over 5 times as many and even then there can still be a small loss.. How on earth can this be. the cost of 1 rips 5kk metal, 2.5kk crystal, and 1.5kk Deut. Against he old cost of 30kk metal 40kk crystal and 15kk deut. Now cost 150kk metal 200kk crystal and 75kk deut.. this is completely disproportional.
As such, has change the game yet again making the Battle cruiser worthless. many n00bs have 5 or more Rips which would require a new or another n00b to have over 25k BC of course they would no longer be a n00b if they had that amount of ships. If this is related to players building LG then these figures are just as bad. You are making fleeting for any new player pointless. As the only ship worth now building is the Death Star. I have said so many times this does not effect me but the future players of this game. I have more DS than any other player. I also feel the whole idea of this new BE is deliberately for this reason. The Dev team seam to have been instructed to create a one sided BE so fleeters are removed from the game. Well if that's the case then good luck to you. Why not just relaunch the game as Miners Empire..and well done in destroying what was a great game.

BTW I am also the Top miner so can change development in any direction you go in. One last thing I will not buy one more rubie you have had the last $ out of me till this issue is resolved.

Gozar wrote:I have posted so many times on this subject yet have still had No reply. I wish someone could explain to me why this new battle engine is so one sided. I will say right now I have used the new sim and the results are as follows:-

1 Rip equal tech's . Now old BE 1000 BC could wipe this out without loss. New BE now requires over 5 times as many and even then there can still be a small loss.. How on earth can this be. the cost of 1 rips 5kk metal, 2.5kk crystal, and 1.5kk Deut. Against he old cost of 30kk metal 40kk crystal and 15kk deut. Now cost 150kk metal 200kk crystal and 75kk deut.. this is completely disproportional.
As such, has change the game yet again making the Battle cruiser worthless. many n00bs have 5 or more Rips which would require a new or another n00b to have over 25k BC of course they would no longer be a n00b if they had that amount of ships. If this is related to players building LG then these figures are just as bad. You are making fleeting for any new player pointless. As the only ship worth now building is the Death Star. I have said so many times this does not effect me but the future players of this game. I have more DS than any other player. I also feel the whole idea of this new BE is deliberately for this reason. The Dev team seam to have been instructed to create a one sided BE so fleeters are removed from the game. Well if that's the case then good luck to you. Why not just relaunch the game as Miners Empire..and well done in destroying what was a great game.

BTW I am also the Top miner so can change development in any direction you go in. One last thing I will not buy one more rubie you have had the last $ out of me till this issue is resolved.

Completley agree!! The Dev team -edited by Zorg: Administration baiting-

I remember community Chat Zorg talking about the fact you dont want fleeters in the game and you are making it one sided. Im with Gozar i am strong enough to destroy any fleeter who breaks the 100k barrier, so this is about encouraging players to choose there paths on this game and not dictate. How is a mining in this game in any way exciting!!!

What i find also so funny.

Fleeters use more rubies than miners, its fact! We build roamers and fast track queues using rubies, we build JG's quick to get those hits. We also use merchants. Most miners trade in game so there is no need for them to use rubies. So not only have to built a rubbish combat sim and tried to turn this game upside down by making it near impossible for the new generation to build a fleet, but your now encouraging everyone not to spend any money with you. You may be techys but your marketing skills are awful, and you should maybe use the heads of fleeters and miners alike to actually create a good game.

Zorg -edited by Zorg: moderator baiting-. I spend money on this game so i have a right to my say and there it is.

I actually think those who dont buy them shouldnt have any rights to a say at all and surely you should be looking about how to bring in more funds to generate a better game. Building new servers doesnt bring money, it really doesnt work like that when you have half empty servers anyway!.

Come on zorg seriously, change this back to the original sim and actually work on your current sim and branch it when its ready. I really cant see you have put any real thought in this at all.!

Gozar wrote:I have posted so many times on this subject yet have still had No reply. I wish someone could explain to me why this new battle engine is so one sided. I will say right now I have used the new sim and the results are as follows:-

1 Rip equal tech's . Now old BE 1000 BC could wipe this out without loss. New BE now requires over 5 times as many and even then there can still be a small loss.. How on earth can this be. the cost of 1 rips 5kk metal, 2.5kk crystal, and 1.5kk Deut. Against he old cost of 30kk metal 40kk crystal and 15kk deut. Now cost 150kk metal 200kk crystal and 75kk deut.. this is completely disproportional.
As such, has change the game yet again making the Battle cruiser worthless. many n00bs have 5 or more Rips which would require a new or another n00b to have over 25k BC of course they would no longer be a n00b if they had that amount of ships. If this is related to players building LG then these figures are just as bad. You are making fleeting for any new player pointless. As the only ship worth now building is the Death Star. I have said so many times this does not effect me but the future players of this game. I have more DS than any other player. I also feel the whole idea of this new BE is deliberately for this reason. The Dev team seam to have been instructed to create a one sided BE so fleeters are removed from the game. Well if that's the case then good luck to you. Why not just relaunch the game as Miners Empire..and well done in destroying what was a great game.

BTW I am also the Top miner so can change development in any direction you go in. One last thing I will not buy one more rubie you have had the last $ out of me till this issue is resolved.

Here is the old engine:
http://beta.zorgempire.net/simulator2.php

Try 2 tests with all 0 for wsa.

Test A)
1 Cruiser vs 30 LF

Test B)
1 RIP vs 750 Battle Cruisers

Repeat with the new engine.

Based on these 2 tests, tell me which of the 2 engines works better in your opinion. Then we can decide if we want to talk of making BCs stronger or RIPs weaker or changing the Battle Engine.