Zorg Empire

noob question here, could not find answer in other posts so hope not duplicated

1. is it better to go in with fighters to to distract thier defences an let the big poys (bombers batlships) pound or firepower/armore bein equle just use heavy ships. if distragtion is the key won't probs do the same job to take the rapid fire hits per round

2. LF HF an Crusers look like same class of ship,any reaon to use fighter if cruser are fast an stronger.

I keep losing half my large cargo ships on attak is basis of the question, seams like defences target them first
thanks
Haygar

its not that they target them first, just that they are weaker, most of the time, if a ship is weaker it will die before the stronger ones.. maybe for the small players using fighters to keep your bigger ships alive works.. but once you get bigger there is no point.. i only use battleships/battlecruisers to attack and most of the time get 0 losses, using fighters is pointless since they will die anyway.. if you are trying to pick up loot from the planet and your cargo are dying because of defense, send only battleships, since they can hold quite good amounts of resources and have rapid fire against rocket launchers, so handle well against defense.. 1.000 battleships on their own will carry away 500k of each resource, 2.000 will carry away 1 million and so on... if it takes too much fuel to launch only battleships, add a recycler in and it will slow them down and save fuel..

an answer to your other question about why not use cruisers instead of fighters is because they cost deuterium to build, and deuterium doesnt get added to debris fields.. so if they die you will never get that deuterium back, if you use ships that only cost metal and crystal you will always get a 60% return from them in the debris field, thats why most of my fleet is battleships only.. but later on battlecruisers and destroyers are useful even though they cost deuterium to make because they have very high shields and armour and are very difficult to kill for lower strength units... also death stars are powerful in large numbers for hitting planets with high defense or destroying big moons..

sorry for the big post but hope i helped

1. Yes. LF works well against defenses. It prevents your larger ships from getting destroyed. I think it is called fodder. Defenses have no Rapid Fire against ships.

2. I think Cruisers and LFs are mostly used as fodders.
Cruisers are better than LFs only if you look at the ship stats. But it does not work that way with the previous battle engines. I'm not sure yet with the new battle engine.

The ships with the lowest structure points will almost always be destroyed first.
If you don't have enough attack ships to raid planet without loosing any ship, include some fodder; any ship with lower structure points than your cargo ships. They will take the damage instead of the cargo ships.

PS
It is sometimes more cost efficient to loose some ships than to spend more in fueling a large fleet for a 0 loss.

the next time you raid planets with light defenses use LF as fodder.. your LC losses will reduce as the LFs will take most of the hits..
and no.. cruisers and LFs are not in the same league and cruisers are not used as fodder..

cruisers are more like pocket BS.. pack quite a punch but underrated.. downside is like shandris pointed out requires deut to build which cannot be recycled..

cruisers WERE used as a fodder. With a more balanced engine, they WILL be used as a fodder. I dunno how they do it now I guess.

any ship that requires deut to build is generally not used as fodder.. as deut cannot be recovered from the df and deut is scarce in the galaxies..

neoshagrath wrote:cruisers WERE used as a fodder. With a more balanced engine, they WILL be used as a fodder. I dunno how they do it now I guess.

honestly, anyone who uses cruisers as fodders are a bit of an idiot.. good luck wasting your deuty

Shandris wrote:

neoshagrath wrote:cruisers WERE used as a fodder. With a more balanced engine, they WILL be used as a fodder. I dunno how they do it now I guess.

honestly, anyone who uses cruisers as fodders are a bit of an idiot.. good luck wasting your deuty

lol.. thank you for putting that so bluntly...

Shandris wrote:honestly, anyone who uses cruisers as fodders are a bit of an idiot.. good luck wasting your deuty

At the moment yes.
Though the deut cost is not the only reason.

The idea of any ship as fodder has always bugged me. Why would you intentionally waste resources on ships that you intend to lose? Let's look at your options. The problem is that you are losing ships because you're not sending enough shields in the fleet to absorb the defensive fire. The lowest value ship seems to be the one targeted by defense, and other ships in the fleet help to absorb some of the damage, but not up to 100% of their ability. I have not figured out yet exactly how much other ships help, maybe in the future. Maybe someone else has figured out exactly how defensive fire (not RF) is distributed and can chime in.

Assuming you are trying to protect LCs because you want to pick up loot but can't justify sending a slew of BS-
Trade ratio 3:2:1

Normal "fodder" ships-
LC cost is 7.5m and 7.5c or deut equivalent of 6.25 and gives a shield value of 25. (shield/cost is 4)
LF cost is 1.5m and 1.5c or deut equivalent of 1.25 and gives a shield value of 10. (shield/cost is 8)
HF cost is 10m and 2.5c or deut equivalent of 4.583 and gives a shield value of 25. (shield/cost is 5.455)
CR cost is 25m, 7.5c, and 2.5d, or a deut equivalent of 14.583 and gives a shield value of 50. (shield/cost is 3.429, LOWER than LC. You'd be better of sending LC as fodder for LC)

Now, keep in mind, that the only ship of any value whatsoever in the list of those three is the LC. We are uninterested in offensive power, as BS and BC are more efficient. Speed is irrelevant, as we are protecting a slower ship. We are only trying to protect LC by increasing shield value. At equivalent shield value, the 2.5 LFs consume the same fuel, but 1 HF consumes 50% more fuel than a LC, so it's thrown out for that reason. One cruiser consumes three times as much fuel as two LC or five LFs.

But we have overlooked my favorite ship, the Battlecruiser.
BC cost is 30m 40c and 15d or deut equivalent of 45 and gives a shield value of 400. (shield/cost is 8.9)
Fuel usage is equally good. At equivalent shield value, 40 LFs or 16 LCs consume more than three times more fuel than one BC.

So now, we are left with the question, is it worth it to waste resources on LFs to protect LCs? The answer is simply no. Build BC (which you need anyway) to send with the LC, and send more LC on the mission. LFs do not fill any niche that cannot be better filled by a more useful ship.

Run the numbers, do some sims, and don't waste your resources building fodder. Yes, it is tactically wise to lose ships sometimes, but even if you are planning on losing ships, it makes no sense to build LF.

If defenses are non-existant, send LCs (highest resource in k (deut evens out, see below) divided by 50 times 3).
If defenses are weak, send more LCs and some BCs.
If defenses are strong, send 1 BS for every 1k metal or crystal, whichever is higher. (Excess deuterium fills over into metal and crystal portion. For example: 50% of 500k metal, 500k crystal, and 1.5m deuterium could be picked up by 1000 BS)
If defenses are very strong, send a combination of BS and BC, or start throwing in RIPs if you have the time.

Or you can build useless ships if you like, it's your fleet.

Edit in red for the cruiserphiles.