I have heard many times in chat that big players do not fleet save. In forums too and nagging and more would follow.
Let me prove you why this is wrong and enlight you some more about what strategies even a weak player can use to harass a much stronger opponent than him.
The key part here, is named "Stacking" and utilizing the RF advantages that skip through the General Value of Shielding. What is important to know is that at casual round shot, the complete shield value of all your ships count but once RF phase begins, it is stack VS stack.
I will use a real case scenario to explain you this, a case that has been sent to administration email with a "threat" that it will be posted in forums. I guess it should be posted then so everyone knows a bit more, as "everyone" seems to be a bit unaware.
Here is the battle:
Now pause for a minute and study it. Try to see if there is something you do not understand.
If you do, skip the spoiler, it is not for you.
If you do not, try to understand; then read my break down into pieces.
Analyzation:
Spoiler:
It is a simple case really. Here we see a huge defending fleet with a very weak point: Elite Cargos.
Now all types of cargos are vulnerable but the truth is that any ship type can be vulnerable.
For example, RIPS can be vulnerable to Lunar Guardians or a small amount of LGs in a big fleet can be vulnerable even to RIPs. There are actually no standards, it has to do with the fleet composition of both defender and attacker.
In this case, ECs are the weakest link for the following reasons:
-Too few total strength in compare to the rest of the fleet.
-Too high RF from RIPs.
LLs are weak too for the same reasons.
Now, in MASSACRE, your EC and Light Lasers will be PWNED in every simulation or attempt.
In Battle Engine 1.1, the BIG GUY may stand lucky and avoid PWNAGE of his ECs and LLs (due to stack to stack RF)
If you still cannot get it, it is obvious that in this battle, RIPS RFed against the ECs.
Any such battle engine that allows the following is a joke.. It has a complete random script that is outside of any predictable game play and is impossible in physics. a fleet 1/200th of the defending can not manage this amount of fire power. regardless of what you say. Plus the added cost of a 30% increase on tech's is a waste of resources you have ruined so much of this game.
The attacking fleet fires 143 times for a total of 248.138.800 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absorb 6.248.392 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 7.218.144.399 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 698.880 points of damage.
The attacking fleet fires 13 times for a total of 9.136.680 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absorb 7.046.554 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 10.075.344.236 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 753.480 points of damage.
The attacking fleet fires 11 times for a total of 9.748.480 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absorb 8.185.590 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 10.056.749.517 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 771.680 points of damage.
The attacking fleet fires 24 times for a total of 26.374.320 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absorb 25.893.043 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 8.998.914.554 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 715.680 points of damage.
The attacking fleet fires 14 times for a total of 14.321.440 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absorb 14.321.440 points of damage.
The defensive fleet fires back 1 times for a total of 8.503.580.142 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 771.680 points of damage.
While i understand your frustration, Gozar, i think it should be noted that the attacker is also taking a big risk. The chances of this happening is rather small, especially if you put in few more types of ship in that group. Not to mention you could be online at the attack, and then those waves are just "pizza deliveries" as some would put it.
A better way to look at ZE is trying to adapt the rules, rather than focusing on the areas that you don't like, because the rules apply to everybody. I.E. i hate how slow the recyclers are, but it affects everyone, so just get used to it.
this will also affect me since I belong to the small group that doesn't need to fleet save, (well, i do fleet save a small portion) but I am eager to see who is willing to try this stunt on me
As I have already explained to you.. This will not make as much of a change as you think
As to the FS all a player needs to do is FS their weaker ships at a reduced cost.. seeing as the main attack fleet is were the real cost comes from.. This changes very little.. In away I hope other players try this..It could be very lucrative
Gozar wrote:I hope other players try this..It could be very lucrative
I think that this is one time thing that was gotten away with, as every one knows about it now. I for one will be on guard for it and will FS my weaker ships like you have mentioned above.
_________________ “One mark of a great soldier is that he fight on his own terms or fights not at all.”
A newcomer once asked me:
"How the heck my ships shot all that **** of damage and yet I have been unable to defeat a single ship ???".
In the past, beating a single ship of a much stronger opponent used to be impossible, no matter how huge your own power was. Renewing shields would ensure that you would stand no chance.
Well, this is not the case anymore as you can take advantage of RF battle and conduct damages to a stronger fleet.
(Do note that the last update in the engine of this battle, has been in June 2011.)
Again, for future readers I feel that I have to add this to your knowledge:
-In MASSACRE universe and any other universe in the future using MASSACRE engine, you can generally rely on the Battle Simulator. In Standard, X-TREME and Speed, you should not rely on it.
If you really cannot understand anything at all, then consider siming about 50 times paying attention to the possible outcomes. As explained in the relative thread, if you understand how things work, you need possibly a lot fewer.
Massacre Simulations will be much more accurate, especially in big numbers. Expect fluctuation for small numbers (<500) in Massacre engine too.
Finally, I guarantee to everyone that if you spend some time to understand how the battle engine works, you will see great improvement in your game so instead of listening to rumors, just read the 4 guides about it (How RF works, BE 1.1 explained, How to use Combat simulator and this one). There is also an open discussion in General Discussion about battle engine and contains info from the start.
If you still have questions, I am here to answer them.
It's just another case of having to adapt with the game. All the long term players have had to change their tactics and roll with the game several times now. The biggest change to my game was the nerfing of the battle cruisers which was offset with the strength of the lunar guardians when they were introduced. I found the changes to be better for the game with less predictable outcomes in battle. Sendng 100k BC's used to be enough to kill almost any mixed fleet. Not so now. 1 RIP in the mix can change the outcome drastically. Fleet saving should be part of eveyones game or we become complacent.
On a side note the suicide RIP has been commonplace in Massacre since the first RIP's rolled off the production line 2 or 3 weeks into the game.
